Abortions?

[Cynthia]

I do not support abortion. Something like that shouldn't even exist. Abortion=Murder, no matter if it was from rape or a screw up. In any case, people don't view it that way. Most people just want to get the problem solved quickly without thinking about other options like setting the child up for adoption. At least that way the child lives.

So you expect people who were RAPED to endure 9 months of child bearing, and the pain of child birth? So to stop "murder" of a simple few cell organism which has not even developed enough brain function to operate on its own, your solution is to punish the innocent victims of a sexual crime? Exactly how are you more divine than the rapist? You don't condone rape, but you condone the prolonged suffering of the victim?

To speak to your second opinion. Hello, my name is Cynthia, I was adopted, were you? I'm guessing not. Well then do you know how wonderful the adoption agency, and social services are? You don't? Well let me tell you: Social services don't do their jobs a lot of the time. There are several children who are left with bad families and they perform no action until they are either dead, or permanently damaged. I can think of a few examples just in my home town. My adopted mother did foster care for 15 years, and was one of the only GOOD foster care takers that I know. Do you have any idea how many bad foster families there are? Hell, would you want to live with the SHAME of knowing either your father is a rapist, or that your parents just didn't want you? The only other option is to lie to the kid and tell them they're dead, but is that much better? So you're essentially condoning children to punishment. One of the children my mother foster cared for went back to her original drug addict parents who WANTED an abortion, but the church got to them and told them how "wrong," it was, well 3 days after returning her mother killed her. Sad part is that if the real parents are still in the picture, a lot of the time they can fight to get their kids back.

So let's review:

You support furthering the suffering a rape victim.

Bringing a child into this world with the shame of having a rapist father.

Condoning children to the child care system, which we all know has never had a good reputation.

Bringing shame to children by either lying to them, telling them their father is a rapist, or that their parents don't want them.

Just tossing more children for the system to deal with.

Forcing people to bring more children in our already overpopulated world.

Forcing people who can not take care of children who actually USED protection but was not successful to have them.

and controlling the female body.

All of this for the sake of an organism that does not even have the mental power to have its own consciousness yet?

[-Zero-]

So you expect people who were RAPED to endure 9 months of child bearing, and the pain of child birth? So to stop "murder" of a simple few cell organism which has not even developed enough brain function to operate on its own, your solution is to punish the innocent victims of a sexual crime? Exactly how are you more divine than the rapist? You don't condone rape, but you condone the prolonged suffering of the victim?

To speak to your second opinion. Hello, my name is Cynthia, I was adopted, were you? I'm guessing not. Well then do you know how wonderful the adoption agency, and social services are? You don't? Well let me tell you: Social services don't do their jobs a lot of the time. There are several children who are left with bad families and they perform no action until they are either dead, or permanently damaged. I can think of a few examples just in my home town. My adopted mother did foster care for 15 years, and was one of the only GOOD foster care takers that I know. Do you have any idea how many bad foster families there are? Hell, would you want to live with the SHAME of knowing either your father is a rapist, or that your parents just didn't want you? The only other option is to lie to the kid and tell them they're dead, but is that much better? So you're essentially condoning children to punishment. One of the children my mother foster cared for went back to her original drug addict parents who WANTED an abortion, but the church got to them and told them how "wrong," it was, well 3 days after returning her mother killed her. Sad part is that if the real parents are still in the picture, a lot of the time they can fight to get their kids back.

So let's review:

You support furthering the suffering a rape victim.

Bringing a child into this world with the shame of having a rapist father.

Condoning children to the child care system, which we all know has never had a good reputation.

Bringing shame to children by either lying to them, telling them their father is a rapist, or that their parents don't want them.

Just tossing more children for the system to deal with.

Forcing people to bring more children in our already overpopulated world.

Forcing people who can not take care of children who actually USED protection but was not successful to have them.

and controlling the female body.

All of this for the sake of an organism that does not even have the mental power to have its own consciousness yet?

Very well, let's put it this way. You are right, i do not condone rape. But don't you think that the organism itself has a right to live? even though it can't decide for itself?

On the subject of adoption, well yes, there are many problems with it, but i said that's one of the options that they could take, if the woman wanted to. After all, that's what happened to my 1 year old cousin. Her mother gave birth to her but she didn't want her. The reason? i do not know, but i do know that my aunt is taking care of that child, and it wasn't through adoption.

back to abortion, I am not gonna be going up to a woman and telling her to not abort her child. It's all up to her. If she wants to then that's fine. she has her reasons. At least that way, i won't be killing the child. I am not some divine person sent to decide a woman's decision. I hate abortions because it takes away life, but I CANNOT DECIDE whether a woman will abort their child or not.

I DON'T GIVE A DAMN if an organism inside a raped woman can't think for itself or have "enough mental power to have it's own consciousness yet", it's still something than can become life, and it has it's own rights, don't you think?

In any case, we all have different opinions on this subject, and at least this way people can become involved in this matter.

[Cynthia]

Very well, let's put it this way. You are right, i do not condone rape. But don't you think that the organism itself has a right to live? even though it can't decide for itself?

On the subject of adoption, well yes, there are many problems with it, but i said that's one of the options that they could take, if the woman wanted to. After all, that's what happened to my 1 year old cousin. Her mother gave birth to her but she didn't want her. The reason? i do not know, but i do know that my aunt is taking care of that child, and it wasn't through adoption.

back to abortion, I am not gonna be going up to a woman and telling her to not abort her child. It's all up to her. If she wants to then that's fine. she has her reasons. At least that way, i won't be killing the child. I am not some divine person sent to decide a woman's decision. I hate abortions because it takes away life, but I CANNOT DECIDE whether a woman will abort their child or not.

I DON'T GIVE A DAMN if an organism inside a raped woman can't think for itself or have "enough mental power to have it's own consciousness yet", it's still something than can become life, and it has it's own rights, don't you think?

In any case, we all have different opinions on this subject, and at least this way people can become involved in this matter.

Even if you don't decide for them, you're still looking down on them. "At least that way, I won't be killing the child", clearly shows you'll look down of them if they do.

What is your solution to a woman being raped? You don't want to kill the baby, but what would you have the woman do? Suffer? What do you propose she does so as to not commit the act of murder?

[Elsch]

it's why this is such a difficult situation. there is no set right or wrong. it's all about beliefs. let me say that it makes me happy that there are people here who are really speaking for their beliefs strongly. it really makes these discussions worth taking part in.

it's just...a few cells. what it comes down to, for me is, do those few cells even have a soul yet? are they aware of being there? or maybe the soul doesn't enter the body until it's grown a bit?

I do not agree with abortion at all if the mother waits until late in the pregnancy to go along with it. I think after a certain amount of months pass, that baby is a baby. it does have feelings by that point. it feels fear, pain, contentment, hunger.

but just a few cells? I don't know. as long as you take care of it early, it's better than putting the mother and child through a life of misery.

the most important thing is letting the mother decide. not pressuring any side on her, and allowing her to think clearly about her own feelings, so that she can make a decision she will leave with as little regrets as possible.

[nellawin]

well, first let's think of it this way...even though it's rape or any other circumstance, the child must not suffer or pay for the mistake of the parent or the victim of rape cause when you try to look at it from their perspective the girl did NOT want to be raped or pregnant right but...is it right to take it out on a child who had ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE of what incident that transpired or try to put it this way would you not be angry if some did something horrible to your friend or relative but instead of taking his/her (let's put it as her for the sake of the rape situation...) frustration or anger out on the person who did it, instead he/ she (again let's stick to the rape situation i just put he or she just to make a point) took it out on you...how would you feel...so why support something that would take out anger and frustration on somebody who was innocent of the circumstance and was only a by-product of an incident when in the first place he/ she (now i'm talking about the gender of the child... so as not to be confused with the former)did not choose to be a by-product. surely a logical victim of rape pregnancy would choose to ABORT the child because of the reasoning "i did not bring this on myself" or "i did not want to have a child" i'd say that..."that kind of reasoning is the stupidest thing i've ever heard"...ok, sure your the victim...ok, you did not want to have a kid that's fine...but...if you were to kill the child who absolutely had no choice to be born to the world...then, you are no less than that person who made you the victim in the first place because you would just make the child a victim of your own selfishness what ever the reason or circumstance behind it...

for the record: i almost had a child...but my ex aborted him that's why every time i hear some kid getting aborted because nobody wanted him/ her it just brings back my regrets of what couldv'e been and what shouldv'e been...

[Cynthia]

well, first let's think of it this way...even though it's rape or any other circumstance, the child must not suffer or pay for the mistake of the parent or the victim of rape cause when you try to look at it from their perspective the girl did NOT want to be raped or pregnant right but...is it right to take it out on a child who had ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE of what incident that transpired or try to put it this way would you not be angry if some did something horrible to your friend or relative but instead of taking his/her (let's put it as her for the sake of the rape situation...) frustration or anger out on the person who did it, instead he/ she (again let's stick to the rape situation i just put he or she just to make a point) took it out on you...how would you feel...so why support something that would take out anger and frustration on somebody who was innocent of the circumstance and was only a by-product of an incident when in the first place he/ she (now i'm talking about the gender of the child... so as not to be confused with the former)did not choose to be a by-product. surely a logical victim of rape pregnancy would choose to ABORT the child because of the reasoning "i did not bring this on myself" or "i did not want to have a child" i'd say that..."that kind of reasoning is the stupidest thing i've ever heard"...ok, sure your the victim...ok, you did not want to have a kid that's fine...but...if you were to kill the child who absolutely had no choice to be born to the world...then, you are no less than that person who made you the victim in the first place because you would just make the child a victim of your own selfishness what ever the reason or circumstance behind it...

for the record: i almost had a child...but my ex aborted him that's why every time i hear some kid getting aborted because nobody wanted him/ her it just brings back my regrets of what couldv'e been and what shouldv'e been...

You didn't answer my question though: What would you have a woman do? She was raped, and OBVIOUSLY does not deserve her suffering to be prolonged, because if you just tell her "keep the baby" you are putting her through the pain and stress of pregnancy, and it's just going to be a constant reminder of her trauma. Clearly you express you don't want to harm the unborn child, but what about the BORN victim? You're punishing her. Don't even give me that "childbirth is a miracle" shit, because how miraculous is it that you get raped and now you have to raise and give birth to a child you weren't ready for and did not want.

Your analogy is flawed, as you related the situation of a relative or friend of mine doing something horrible to someone else, and then that person taking it out on me, to a person being raped and "taking it out" on the unborn child.

First of all there are a lot of differences in those situations. For starters in the first, we are all born people. You can't really say the life of a person who is already a part of this world is more valuable that a few celled organism that is not capable of consciousness yet. Secondly, the situations are COMPLETELY different. You're relating a petty action by a friend or relative to being RAPED. Does the term mean nothing to you? She was RAPED, R-A-P-E-D. This wasn't just "oh man I had a shitty day", this is trauma and fear she may carry with her for her ENTIRE life. Hell even in the first case someone taking anger out on me, if that someone was RAPED, I'd see why they were upset.

You're punishing the VICTIM of the crime. Child birth is exceptionally painful, it's stressful, it's expensive, and it's going to be a constant reminder that she was raped. What is your alternative? Because there is NO way in HELL you can expect the victim to suffer longer, because if so, you're a heartless monster. If you wife got raped and got pregnant and was crying and upset, I sure as hell HOPE you don't try and convince her to keep a child, cause let me tell you now, that'll get you a nice divorce attorney.

So what is your alternative to abortion of the child in that scenario? And for the love of God and all that is holy, you BETTER NOT say for her to just keep the child. I'm quite confident that this situation has never happened to you (given you're not a woman and probably have never been raped), but I know as a FACT that if it did, what you say now means nothing because you'd be wanting to get rid of that pregnancy.

[nellawin]

You didn't answer my question though: What would you have a woman do? She was raped, and OBVIOUSLY does not deserve her suffering to be prolonged, because if you just tell her "keep the baby" you are putting her through the pain and stress of pregnancy, and it's just going to be a constant reminder of her trauma. Clearly you express you don't want to harm the unborn child, but what about the BORN victim? You're punishing her. Don't even give me that "childbirth is a miracle" shit, because how miraculous is it that you get raped and now you have to raise and give birth to a child you weren't ready for and did not want.

Your analogy is flawed, as you related the situation of a relative or friend of mine doing something horrible to someone else, and then that person taking it out on me, to a person being raped and "taking it out" on the unborn child.

First of all there are a lot of differences in those situations. For starters in the first, we are all born people. You can't really say the life of a person who is already a part of this world is more valuable that a few celled organism that is not capable of consciousness yet. Secondly, the situations are COMPLETELY different. You're relating a petty action by a friend or relative to being RAPED. Does the term mean nothing to you? She was RAPED, R-A-P-E-D. This wasn't just "oh man I had a shitty day", this is trauma and fear she may carry with her for her ENTIRE life. Hell even in the first case someone taking anger out on me, if that someone was RAPED, I'd see why they were upset.

You're punishing the VICTIM of the crime. Child birth is exceptionally painful, it's stressful, it's expensive, and it's going to be a constant reminder that she was raped. What is your alternative? Because there is NO way in HELL you can expect the victim to suffer longer, because if so, you're a heartless monster. If you wife got raped and got pregnant and was crying and upset, I sure as hell HOPE you don't try and convince her to keep a child, cause let me tell you now, that'll get you a nice divorce attorney.

So what is your alternative to abortion of the child in that scenario? And for the love of God and all that is holy, you BETTER NOT say for her to just keep the child. I'm quite confident that this situation has never happened to you (given you're not a woman and probably have never been raped), but I know as a FACT that if it did, what you say now means nothing because you'd be wanting to get rid of that pregnancy.

ok then...let me ask you this...what if you were in the same situation? would you abort the kid?...so ok it's a constant reminder yeah we all get that but when you stop and think about it...you would never really understand how it feels until you have gone through the situation yourself right? because it's easy to say "i do not want the kid and just abort it would be a logical thing to do because he/ she will always be a reminder of my trauma" but when you know how it really feels to be in that situation you'll get to think otherwise...because i know a lot of girls that got raped and kept the child because they thought why should i kill a child he/ she had no fault...or think of it this way take no offense ok this is just a simple realization of point what if you were a product of unwanted pregnancy or rape and your mom wanted to abort you but instead she kept you...would you not do the same? also don't reply to me that crap about "well i wasn't" because i was only trying to prove a point and besides if the girl got raped its her fault for not dressing appropriately cause attire could also provoke you know...

and for the record IF my wife got raped and carried child...id keep him even though he's not mine because that's what a logically decent person would do and besides IF she cheats on me i'd still keep the kids but not her...

end note: sorry to be frank with my words of and besides i seriously believe that child birth is a miracle cause we all went through it and JUST try to put yourself in that perspective where you are at the other end of the rope before you make a big conclusion that in order to end the victim's suffering is to kill the by-product...

[ミ★ρяαѕαηтн★™]

i too don't support abortions and about raping there should be strict punishment for raping so that there wont be any raping and if by chance it happens there are pills which can be used within 72 hours.....

[s0teric]

I don't support abortion. I can see where the rape argument is coming from but I still think it is wrong rape is a very terrible act which has awful consequences the woman is forced to carry a child for 9 months for whose birth she did not consent, however that does not change the fact that this child exists. Aborting the child would be the same as murdering it. The suffering that the woman has to go through to bear the child is beside the point (I am not belittling it, it is almost unimaginable) however great the pain and weight of the suffering, murdering the child is not the answer. No one said it was easy (and most certainly is not) but it's right, but the man who committed the act is WRONG! DEAD WRONG! Any man who would exploit a woman for temporal pleasures and cause such pain is evil. If the woman is completely incapable of supporting the child she should put it up for adoption, but killing it is cowardly and wrong (sorry to say) It's not confronting the problem it's giving into the fear of what the child will bring justifying it by playing it through different scenarios doesn't change anything... it all comes down to what standard you judge it at... mine is a set standard of right and wrong

[shyguysteve]

Yes.

Suggesting its on par with murder isn't completely wrong, but to bring a life in this world when you are not ready, and even cannot support it, is worse then killing it.

you can't suffer if your dead, and in death we find acceptance.

[Max465]

I think an abortion should be treated the same way prescription medication. They need a doctor's note. A note saying that there is a MEDICAL reason why the woman needs an abortion. If the child could be born with some kind of disease that causes it to live it's life in pain and misery. Another valid excuse in my mind is if the woman is in an unstable condition(underage, illness, etc). That would cause her to dye giving birth. In a way it's the same as self defense. Granted, it's not the same thing, but I can still see the reasoning.

[Trend]

I do not support abortion what so ever. It's murder plain and simple. In the case of rape, it's not the child's fault so why should he/she be put to death for it when instead he/she could be put up for adoption later. As for the people who say abortion is acceptable before the last few months of a pregnancy or earlier because "it" isn't a human life yet, I say when does a life begin? This is a very serious issue that seems to hide in the eternal loop of retarded politics and doesn't seem to have an end in sight..

Yes.

Suggesting its on par with murder isn't completely wrong, but to bring a life in this world when you are not ready, and even cannot support it, is worse then killing it.

you can't suffer if your dead, and in death we find acceptance.

they could put the kid up for adoption.

[Malyssa Rahl]

I do not support abortion what so ever. It's murder plain and simple. In the case of rape, it's not the child's fault so why should he/she be put to death for it when instead he/she could be put up for adoption later. As for the people who say abortion is acceptable before the last few months of a pregnancy or earlier because "it" isn't a human life yet, I say when does a life begin? This is a very serious issue that seems to hide in the eternal loop of retarded politics and doesn't seem to have an end in sight..

they could put the kid up for adoption.

As had already been stated, the foster care system sucks.

I think that there are some situations where abortion is, and should be acceptable. In the case of rape, there should be no question. And for anyone who brings up the "morning After" pill, that's still an abortion, it just only works in that short window of time.

Accidental pregnancy, I think they should live with the consequences of their actions. Even if they were trying to avoid pregnancy, they still chose to have sex. So I would say that it should not be allowed in that case. Unless there is extreme risk to one or both lives involved if the pregnancy is allowed to continue.

[† Talena Mae]

I dont agree with abortion. i cant kill a living thing (unless it is a cockroach) A rape baby, well i know plenty of people who can not have children and there are alwyas ways to give the baby to them without the law or papers to adopt the child.

if that is not possable, adoption is better. the system may not be the best, but it is better then sticking the child into a bin and letting ants eat it (happened a few months aog in Australia) or killing the child yourself after it has been born.

There are options out there to let the child live without resorting to killing it.

[Kaelann]

If you don't want kids, you should stick to masturbation, or gay sex. It's much easier to avoid unwanted pregnancy that way.

Abortion should be saved for extreme situations where the mother's life is at stake, or the baby wouldn't survive anyway.

[Trend]

I feeling like discussing abortion is like trying to justify murdering innocent defenseless babies.

To all those defending it, look at these pictures (this is the harsh reality that a lot of pro-choice people try to ignore):

https://www.google.com/search?gcx=c&q=abortion&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1600&bih=775&sei=2ujNToaqHKr10gG9ijU

Now, tell me how you feel about it again? if that didn't make you sad in any way, you don't have a soul.

I've heard of nurses actually pulling babies out of trash cans and trying to save them. I've been to conferences where people involved in doing abortions have spoken about the shady things that go on in those places, and let me tell you, it takes a special kind of fucked up person to do those operations. I've heard the stories about people who fell victim(them and their babies) to the operations due to medical error, which happens a lot more often then you think. Not to mention the mental situation of the people who had abortions and have to live with reality that they murdered a child.

[BlackDahlia]

Yes, I definitely support abortion. Some say it's murder, I see it no different than eating an egg. Her egg, his sperm, their decision. If rape resulted in pregnancy, then abortion should definitely be an option. Honestly, what goes through rape victims' heads that they would want to have a child with traits of the one who raped them?

There are more reasons, but these are the ones I'll say for now.

What I don't support is the child support system. It is very often a sexist and abused system.

To all those defending it, look at these pictures (this is the harsh reality that a lot of pro-choice people try to ignore):

https://www.google.com/search?gcx=c&q=abortion&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1600&bih=775&sei=2ujNToaqHKr10gG9ijU

Now, tell me how you feel about it again? if that didn't make you sad in any way, you don't have a soul.

Nice pictures, my opinion has not changed. Go look at the animals before you eat them. Is it making you a vegetarian? Didn't think so, you have no soul.

[Trend]

Go look at the animals before you eat them. Is it making you a vegetarian? Didn't think so

So you're putting human life on the same level as farm animals? do you also support cannibalism?

[seirachan]

I believe it's a women's right to make the choice. Sometimes It's the girls and or guys fault for her getting pregnant. Sometimes the father forces her to get the abortion or even the parents force it and as always maybe she was raped. There's no way of telling which one it was unless she shares it. Nobody should ever force a girl to have an abortion. If the man doesn't want the kid then just let her take care of it. Parents have no right to force their daughter either. In a lot of chases abortion happens because the girl secretly wanted to get pregnant and the father/parents disapproved and forced otherwise. There's also the problem of girls in high school getting pregnant and if she keeps the kid she either can't finish school or it's really hard to.

But as the same to forcing a girl to have an abortion nobody should force her not to. A child is a lot to take care of. Some women can't take care of a child. Sometimes the father leaves as well. The child's life is burdened. Sometimes the child gets taken away by a company I don't remember the name to. The girl/guy is left devastated and the child will never see their mother/father again.

In the end the right to have an abortion should never be taken away and girls getting forced into it should seek help by the police or programs for this kind of thing(I see posters downtown saying there's non judgmental help for a girl going through an abortion or thinking about it)

[shyguysteve]

wow, I can understand everyone's point of view, but some comments or thoughts are kinda meant to suggest that keeping the baby means punishment, then you just insult the baby and give it a hard life.

some suggest that its murder and is wrong, give it birth then send it away into the foster system, well that means it will still lead a hard life, when there are already so many children in the system and still so many left as orphans.

would making the child suffer be means to justify not having an abortion?

human life no matter how high and mighty it seems, is no more important compared to that of an ant.

the saddest thing to read when seeing comments and thoughts is the realization that we have life to spare, where one dies twenty more can take its place. what I mean is death holds no impact to humanity when we're just over populated.

abortion is dim, it takes life away before life has a chance, but what is seen in the world today maybe its better off. who knows for sure, these are just my views.

but honestly its not the fact abortion is an option that concerns me, but how useful it can be. thats what disturbs me.