Gay Rights?

[Libitinarius]

I support the Human Rights Movement. I am not gay, and I believe in God.

1. Religion has no place in this discussion

Christianity in America should not try to conform the ways of the world by force or tongue. God did not stop men from doing their evil deeds, Jesus did not stop Judas or his own crucifixion. God has given all free-will, it is up to THEM to follow his suggested path. Believers are to be a light in the darkness, but not to "throw pearls before swine"-Mat 7:6 (aka nonbelievers). So why do people think it necessary to preach to people who openly reject it? If Homosexuality is an open sin, why preach about sanctity of marriage to deaf ears?

Jesus said himself "it is better for a man not to marry"-Mat: 19:10. And that means for a man and woman. But he knew the flesh was weak, so he allowed them to do so. As for open sin, Jesus did not force the hookers to stop hooking, or the tax collecters to stop stealing from the poor. "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."--John 17: 14-16

Are Christians trying to stop the inevitable on this perpetual cestpool, as the coming of hell has been prophesized in the book Revelations? If so, why? Is their faith so little that they just use religion as a crutch to spread hate?

2. A legitimate argument would be something like: "Partnerships" don't receive the tax breaks of a bona fide marriages. Giving gays the sanctity of a legal marriage extends to them the same tax-cuts as heterosexual marriages. This hurts the economy.

3. Gross does not constitute a valid argument to restrict someone from personal freedom. If a man wants to eat a piece of shit and post it on the internet, then that's his business! Now you may believe that it is harmful, and tell him it's bacteria infested; but he still has the right to do as he pleases with his life.

4. Don't make ignorant comments about AIDS. The disease is not predisposed to homosexuals, it is a pandemic that is actually predisposed to drug IV users, unprotected sex, and areas of sub-Saharan Africa. In 2001, of the 5 million cases dealing with AIDS 800,000 of them were children. According to World Health Report, (2002), the 10 leading causes of death in US and Africa in 2000: USA--AIDS is not even in the top 10; Africa-- it is the 2nd leading cause of death behind Parasitic infections.

[† Mute point]

Many people believe what you just said. What do you say to the countless of original manuscripts of the bible found, translated, and compared with todays bible. It has been discovered that of the 125,000 claimed mistakes in the bibles by translation, less than 400 are legit, and those 400 are words that mean the same thing as the word we translate it in today. People believed that the bible was translated so many times that it has been distorted. This is a lie. The modern Bible today has been translated from the original greek and latin language. If compared, it shows that the bible has not been changed as alot of people believe.

And who is paying for these comparisons? The church. Those who have reason to say "NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!!" And before you talk about how they are independent people doing the comparisons... Churches have very deep pockets, and everyone has a price.

No, I don't support gay marriage what so ever. I just feel that it's wrong and that marriage should be sacred between a man and a woman.

Marriage between a man and woman being sacred is a joke. Look up divorce statistics and you'll see what I mean. You've got people getting married only for the tax benefits, people divorcing after less than a week, people abusing their spouses. What's sacred about any of that?

How is it at all fair, that a man and woman who have known each other for 24 hours, or even less, can get married and divorce in the same time frame, but a gay couple who has been together for years can't get married at all?

The correct answer is: It's not fair, it sucks, and something needs to be done about it.

[LivingShinigami]

Oh my lord i left so many forums because of ill informed people quoting scriptures and arguing over whos got the bigger deity...

I support same sex marriage whole heartedly. Does the bible not also teach:

"do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?

If someone didnt like the reason you were getting married would you want to be stopped? Whichever deity you believe in created all Humans equal did they not?

[TheLostFool]

I'm not gay, but I'm not a gay-o-phobic or w/e. Meaning I'm not afraid of them. I feel that if they want to get married or be gay then thats their right and their freedom and we shouldn't interfere or stop them.

I completely agree with this. Whether straight or gay, man or women all should be allowed to marry and live with who every they want granted of a legal age.

And being from the USA and being an American, I unlike a large portion of Americans understand what it is to be American. We have a separation between church and state. The United States does not have an official religion, even if the majority of it's citizens are Christian, The United States is a Secular nation. And I believe if we really want to call ourselves Americans it is our duty to fight for the rights of all Americans regardless of their religion or sexual preferences. I'm not gay, but I have studied the constitution and bill of rights. Any talk of religion is irrelevant when it comes to this topic, for one because we live in a secular democracy where civil rights are guaranteed by the bill of rights. If we lived in Iran, and our government was a theocracy then one could bring up the religious arguments, but again in modern secular nations the religious aspect doesn't matter. So it offends some christians who feel it is ruining the "holy sanctity of marriage" or what ever well thats the great thing about America, you can turn on comedy central and watch SouthPark shit on all your favorite religions. If you don't like that you can move to a place without such great religious freedoms. =P

[† Mute point]

"Separation of church and state" is as big a joke as marriage being sacred in modern society. Proposition 8 in California, passed because of the influence of the mormon church. DOMA, a bill proposed because of a religious president, passed because of ultra conservative politicians with religious upbringings. I could go on, but that's about all that's on topic for this thread.

[Bluenoser]

"Separation of church and state" is as big a joke as marriage being sacred in modern society. Proposition 8 in California, passed because of the influence of the mormon church. DOMA, a bill proposed because of a religious president, passed because of ultra conservative politicians with religious upbringings. I could go on, but that's about all that's on topic for this thread.

This is neither entirely fair nor accurate. The bill was proposed by the GOP Representative of Georgia Bob Barr in the House of Representatives and was a Congressional creation by the GOP, and Clinton was a Dem, not GOP President. It swept through both Houses of Congress with wide majorities thanks to the power and dominance of the GOP in both Houses and the continuing rise of the GOP's power throughout the land causing many Dems that might have opposed it to instead sign on to prevent losing their own seats (hypocritical and cowardly yes, but a sad reality of politics in general), and became a part of the GOP platform by the 1996 elections, unlike the Dem party which stayed silent until Obama's rise. Did he sign it stating he agreed with it? Yes, that he did, but was he a primary creator and primary mover of the bill? No, that he was not. This bill was not proposed because of Clinton, nor because he had religious views of his own, that is an unfair and inaccurate description of how this bill came to be according to the historical record. The part you blame ultra conservative politicians though is entirely accurate. I watched this horror happen as I have watched the rise of the religious right to political power within the US since the rise of the so called moral majority movement back in the 1970s. The spillover effect from their rise into my country has been less than pleasant and has resulted in our current government of right wing extremists who are destroying our international reputation as a bastion defenders of legal process and respecting human rights not to mention what they are doing to our internal structures developed since Confederation that enabled Canada to become such a place in the first place, but that is a whole other rant, one I can do for hours and pages for, it is a very sore point for me.

As to the topic itself, marriage is inherently a civil matter more than a religious one because of what legal/civil rights and privileges comes with it, whatever the religious groups want to say, and on that basis alone it needs to be available to all that seek it, both the rights and the responsibilities that come with it, be they straight, gay, bi or transgendered, it matters not to me.

[Dreamscape]

Just because gay marriage is a "hot button issue" today, does not mean it will be in 10 years. I foresee its acceptance with the general populous within that time and I, for one, welcome it. Let two people that love each other express it through the bonds of holy matrimony.

[Spacecreepkitan]

I absolutely support gay marriage. I'm all for people being able to be happy with whoever makes them happy and if you're not happy with that then I'm happy for you Nobody should have to stand on the sidelines just because they don't play the game the same way you do, what I'm saying is, if they've got the heart let them go the distance ...

[CaNzCo]

I am against a lot of things, such as government interfering with religion. I want equal rights between people, and until the gay community gets equal treatment by the government (taxes, medical decision making, property after death, adoption... ect) I won't be happy, but I dislike the thought of the government forcing churches to wed people. Marrage as a definition doesn't matter to me, but I can understand that some people of various faiths believe it is between a man and woman.

I am not religious, but I am a supporter of peoples rights, including those who believe in the bible. I don't see why it needs to be "marriage" if the two people have equal rights. Civil Union isn't the prettiest sounding title, but so long as it grants gay couples the appropriate rights, I can settle. The bottom line is that even though religions may be flawed, they are a more important right than a title.

[† Mute point]

Just because gay marriage is a "hot button issue" today, does not mean it will be in 10 years. I foresee its acceptance with the general populous within that time and I, for one, welcome it. Let two people that love each other express it through the bonds of holy matrimony.

I don't want "Holy" matrimony. I just want a legal marriage with the same rights and protections as straight people. Applying the word holy to it implies that it is a religious thing, and a lot of straight people don't even get married by church people.

[CaNzCo]

Holy Matrimony is just a way to get married and is not the only way. There should definitely be a way that Gay Marriage could exist without going through a church, And the states that allow it do just that.

The issue seems to be more of a majority rule problem. Most people are christian, most Christians frown upon gay marriage, so when it is put up to a vote they shoot it down. Religion is notorious for butting into other peoples personal life and casting judgement upon them, and that is precisely what has happened. The thing that makes it tricky for me is that they honestly believe that they are protecting people and doing what is right. My guess is from their perspective, they are doing people a service. saving people from damnation to them is like one of us stopping a kid who doesn't know any better from chasing a ball into the street.

[† Mute point]

A civil union would work, if it was truly equal. The fact remains though, that very few of the rights and protections given to a marriage are offered to a civil union. Domestic partnerships are the same. For example, if you are married, and your spouse dies before you, you are entitled to their social security benefits. If you were joined in a civil union, or registered as domestic partners, you don't get a dime no matter what they wrote down on the beneficiary line. That is only one example, another would be that... If you are married in one state that allows gay marriage, and then travel to one that doesn't, and your partner were to be hospitalized there, they would not be legally required to let you see them as a spouse, nor would they be required by law to give you any information regarding their condition. While a straight couple, once married has the same protection in every state.

Once again, no one is asking for churches to be legally required to marry gays, they aren't even required to marry straights. All we're looking for, is the same rights the majority gets. It's no different than when other minorities were awarded equal rights, though it has taken a lot longer.

[Malyssa Rahl]

Marriage doesn't mean a whole lot to me one way or the other. To me, you shouldn't need a little piece of paper to stay committed to the same person. However.. if this state makes it legal, and Sarah asked me.. my answer would be yes. I wouldn't care about the benefits or anything like that... For me, the one reason to marry is because you love the person you are marrying. Anything less than that is a waste of time.

[Gringo1323]

I think that marriage should come in two parts. The first part is he part dealing with legal matter. In that case all marriage between consenting humans (over the age of 18) should be allowed and given equal rights, protections, and benefits. As long as this occurs, I could care less what happens on the religious level.

The second part is the religious part, and there I think it should be up to the individual religious organizations, as a business to decide whether they wish to marry those of the same sex. In this way church and state or kept separate and religious groups can make the decision on whether they are willing to marry people of the same sex. If two people of the same sex want to marry and their church(or whatever) does not want to marry them, then they can change churches (or whatever).

[Malyssa Rahl]

The first part is all any of us really want. As long as religion has no say in the legal marriage part.

[Krogothwolf]

Marriage for one and all! Buzzaaah.

I think religions, the Roman Catholic Church being a big example, should shut their mouths about who should and shouldn't get married to who. They aren't exactly shining examples or moral decency so they don't shouldn't try to tell people what is and isn't moral anymore. Honestly, who cares if people want to marry the same sex, it's not like they are harming anyone or anything by getting married. Also, considering they should have the same rights and freedoms as everyone else, it seems moronic to say they can't.

[Beer]

I've always liked Kinky Friedman's (an American satirist from Texas) quote on the matter: "I support gay marriage. I believe they have a right to be as miserable as the rest of us".

[EvilDoomBunny]

I really hate that gay marriage is even an issue.

Homosexuality is found in nature and it helps control the friggin population..

I understand that some people who are in same sex relationships might already have children from a previous relationship and might also prefer to give birth to one of their own and seek out artificial insemination or anything else... but also many adopt when wanting a child to add to their family , suppose I support adoption on all grounds, but i digress...

I hate that gay marriage is such a big issue when there are so many real pressing issues that need attention.

I don't dislike gays but you know what I do dislike, I hate when people make it a bigger part of their identity. I hate when people shove their race or their sexual preference down societie's throat.. and all BROWN PRIDE, BLACK PRIDE, WHITE PRIDE... GAY PRIDE.. screw that shit I am a mix of things and I don't take "pride" in being anything I was born into and had no control over or whatever sexual preference I have. I am proud when I accomplish something that took hard work and dedication. I am proud that I am putting myself through school and supporting my god child. I am proud that I am making something of myself when growing up all I had were negative "role models" and heard nothing but negative words from even my own mother. Again I digress but I really wanted to throw my two cents in you didn't have to read.

[shyguysteve]

Marriage is sacred and a big distraction from my point of view, but to the topic of gay marriage and should it be legal I say yes. Why people fear homosexuality is simple and stupid. Most people fear it for their children and passing on the name of a family, another reason is their afraid they might be homo themselves and ridicule it from fear.

In many "primitive/under developed" cultures being gay set you above in social status mainly that you would no longer be competition for a mate/partner.

[maea]

In my opinion it is okay for me 'coz it is not their fault to love with the same sex... there are only true themselves.. unless there are going to deny themselves to become happy..