Gay Rights?

[valko]

I find this subject difficult to deal with,I was raised as a Jehovahs Witness and if you know them you know how obvious they are with their views,but I left when i was 27 having realised that i dont believe in god,by far the hardest issue i have had the most difficulty getting used to is homosexuality and by extention gay rights,as far as women sleeping with women,well thats totally cool with me,i dont think theres a guy alive that has a problem with 2 women being with each other,besides even from a christian point of view theres no actual penetration.

 

but as for men who sleep with men its more icky,any chance i get to be around gay people i take the oppitunity so that i can learn to accept their way of life and learn to be more understanding,im not sure i will ever fully accept gay people,i guess when it comes to a parent raising a child they have no say in what goes into their head,so it makes it hard to see things in my "own" way.

 

Now as regards gay rights,well personally its difficult for me to have my own opinion given how i was raised but i hope gay rights happen and given the momentum in recent months i think gay rights will happen faster than we realise,i think the main problem for why its taken this long is the older generations having their own strict personal opinion and of course that opinion is against gay rights,but those older men are dying out and being replaced by younger more open minded men and women with the power to help change close minded people.

[Pinkie Pie]

wow that's not harmful at all.  girl on girl? hell yeah!  two dudes?  ewwwwwww

no, it doesn't work that way.  and i'm not aiming this at the poster before i'm aiming it at everyone in this thread who has posted with that truly disgusting attitude.  you /think/ you're helping the ~hawt lesbos~ and putting down the icky gay guys  but you're just hurting everything they've been working for. i'm just really tired of that kind of attitude getting fired at me when people find out my preferences and then turn around and berate gay men.

[† Mute point]

If you think about sex purely from the mechanics of it, it's all kind of icky.

 

The funny thing about that attitude is that it mostly stems from fantasies about sharing a woman with another woman. Which, if you're dealing with 100% exclusive lesbians, it will never happen. Despite what porn shows you, real lesbians do not like cock.

 

Some women have the same fascination with gay men, for the same reasons, and it doesn't work there either, because as a general rule, gay men don't like pussy.

 

Obviously when you're dealing with the subject on this level, bisexuals come into the equation. And it's true that, with the right personality types involved, those fantasies are possible. But in general? Most prefer a monogamous relationship with a single person of one gender. So those people will just have to keep dreaming.

 

Rights in general have little to do with sex, other than the right to have it, which we all already do.

 

13 countries, 9 states, and our nation's capital all agree on equal rights. That number will continue to grow, and the world will become a giant rainbow. Then we can tackle silly issues like religious differences, poverty, global hunger, and global cooling. (I know they SAY it's global warming, but if it's warming, why is it so fucking cold!?)

[† Emotional Outlet]

Sex is pretty weird, even vanilla.

 

There are a lot of places that prohibit/ban/condemn homosexuality in men, but either allow or are silent with regards to homosexuality in women. It's one thing to hear that kind of mindset from a single person, but to put it into perspective and see how widespread that attitude is--to the point of it becoming law--is abhorrent. (On the flipside, the fetishization of homosexuality is something I see a lot on Tumblr, which is pretty frustrating in and of itself.)

 

There's still a lot of biphobia from both sides (hohoho)--it's not real, you just haven't made up your mind, you're just slutty (+5 slut-shaming), &c &c. Eventually we'll get our time in the sun, I guess, haha. Until then, the homosexual agenda marches on. (Next on the agenda--crochet.)

[Bluenoser]

There's still a lot of biphobia from both sides (hohoho)--it's not real, you just haven't made up your mind, you're just slutty (+5 slut-shaming), &c &c. Eventually we'll get our time in the sun, I guess, haha. Until then, the homosexual agenda marches on. (Next on the agenda--crochet.)

 

 

Oh you have no idea, I was essentially shoved out of my local gay community back in the 80s because I refused to step away from my openly saying I was bi, not straight, not gay, but very very bisexual (as in I have lots of fun with both genders and find the physical aspects of sex with both genders a lot of fun across the board, I don't personally get why anyone sees any of it as icky, but that's me and I know it).  However, this is back when the AIDS crisis was running rampant in the gay community and activist groups like ACT UP  formed and becoming real powers within the community, and I as a white male was supposed to either be true to the cause or be seen as a traitor, it wasn't just that I was a fence sitter, or lying to myself, no I was a full blown traitor because I wouldn't say I was gay.  This drove me nuts, and I would always ask them this question and never once did I get a good answer back, the question being: "How come it is alright and a self evident obvious fact for you to tell straight people that being gay is not a choice because you know you are gay, and that straight people know that they are straight yet it is not an equally obvious and valid fact for a bi person knowing they are bi in EITHER of your minds especially in the case of someone like myself who has had several years of sexual experience with both genders?"  It really pissed me off, as I expected to get shit on by the straights in my community, but to get not only the same but much more intense crap from gay people over it was enough to push me away from having anything to do with that community for a couple of decades in the end.  What is worse, my wife did a project at the end of the 90s when she was still in high school where she came out as bi herself and she yet again ran into the same crap I did, and the tone/intensity had not cropped much at all, and worse for her some feminist lesbians gave her even worse crap on the traitor to the cause approach than I got from the ACT UP crowd, and that really took doing.

 

You see, I am of the opinion that most of the people that identify as gay are not, I think most are bi but strongly inclined one way over the other, and it is easier for them to simply see themselves this way, not just for others I might add, but for themselves as well.  It is not easy being comfortably bi, it requires a level of self honesty not always easy for humans, and it also requires developing some fairly strong ethical concepts to govern your sexual interactions, especially if you are like me and are not inclined towards monogamy and tended to be with both males and females at the same time, and even multiple members of each gender at that (I was always open and honest about it though with my partners, I may be a slut but I have always done my best to be an ethical slut, and I use the word slut in no small part as a push back in the way it is used to shame females who dare to enjoy their own sexual natures, I find that attitude utterly contemptible and disgusting personally, especially where the gender double standard is concerned with it but far from just that aspect).

 

Bottom line gay rights really are about human rights, because being gay, being bi, being trans all comes back to being human and needing to practice a fundamental aspect of your humanity, your ability to have a deep relationship with another(s) of your species and to do so in recognized and sanctioned forms that are seen as respectable in your culture/society.  It really is that simple, it has never been about special rights, just equal rights, and why that is so hard for some people to grasp goes beyond my ability to comprehend even on a purely intellectual level, and I am usually pretty good at that sort of thing even when I cannot relate/grasp it at a gut level.  In the end it is likely this will triumph, as it actually has in much of human history, even if alas it was not as often formally recognized as simply accepted and tolerated.  Being rabidly anti gay rights and relationships beyond just empty rhetoric actually has been more the exception than the norm it turns out, but its taken serious anthropological research using forensic tools to work that out, and alas for far too many science is treated as the same as faith and as easily dismissed as differences in faith despite the fundamental fact that science and faith are almost completely opposite in that one requires hard evidence to back it up while the other requires being able to believe without any hard proof in its existence and meaning. 

 

It doesn't matter if you find gay relationships or the mechanics of it icky, no one is asking you to participate if you don't want to, just to accept that for those of us that do not find it icky but find it pleasurable to finding it central to our bodies and souls want to find others that feel the same and to live our lives knowing we are afforded the same basic considerations and acceptances as human beings as anyone that finds their joy/comfort in someone of the opposite sex.  Should that really be so hard for people to accept?   Especially for people who do not have a religious basis for their discomfort where at least the religious person has something to point to (even though I would argue wrongheadedly), I am fine with people being believers and converting by their own living example (Christians call it Witnessing I believe), but pushing it on others by force/coercion is a whole other matter and one that will leads to tragedy and worse every time in the end, from the small scale to the large, religious differences tend to create the ugliest conflicts between humans judging by our history as a species. 

 

It is why the idea of separation of Church and State is so important and has become such a primary concept not just in the US but in most Western nations, even those that still have State religions.  The State must be able to treat all citizens the same under the law, and religions by their very nature set up different standards for those that share the faith in question versus those that do not, and it is why laws may be inspired by religious concepts but should not be actually shaped/defined by them, because they to apply equally to all to have real meaning in a democratic society or they are not democratic.  Equality under the law underscores the need/requirement for basic human rights, and that is something I think many people either forget or never really grasp and why for so many things like gay rights are seen as somehow looking for special rights, or not comparable to civil rights for blacks in the US, a comment I have heard many times alas despite the truth that they really are.  Human rights may be a fairly recent invention for human society historically speaking, but their underlying precepts have been around for a long time, they just have been expanded from the select few with power to force others to recognize them in the beginning to now extending them for all humans being seen as necessary for all for there to be true just societies out there.  Without these things we cannot have true equality for all, justice for all, and peace for all (yes I know that last has still yet to happen, but I do think it should be obvious to anyone that thinks about it you need a truly just and all are equal under the law culture/society for it to have any chance of actually happening).

 

Sorry, hadn't meant to get so intense in this comment, I guess I still have a lot of passion where this is concerned even in my mid-forties and a married man of a decade now.

[† Mute point]

I know exactly what you mean Blue. Though I grew up in a different time, bisexuality has still been frowned upon by many. Mostly because of those who won't commit to a single person because of it, but that really doesn't matter to me.

 

I tried fitting in to the straight community, only to find that there really isn't one... And that Buffy was right. When you sleep with a guy, he really does go all evil.

 

The Kinsey scale gives a fairly accurate accounting of sexuality, though it doesn't factor in things like gender identity. With a 0 being 100% straight, and a 6 being 100% gay, and all numbers in between the two extremes representing varying degrees of bisexuality. A 3 would be perfectly bisexual. With no preference either way. I would place myself at a 4 or 5. Because I always found girls more attractive... I just couldn't bring myself to act on that at the time. I had enough bullying issues as it was!

 

But anyway, the point of mentioning that scale is to show that, there are more numbers between the two extremes... and thus, a significant probability that the majority of people fall somewhere in the bisexual range. 5 out of 7.. Not good odds for the pure straight or pure gay crowd.

 

 

My favorite argument to shoot down regarding anti-gay comments "The CDC says that the majority of infections occurs among men who have sex with men. It's a gay disease!" To which I reply. "They also say a greater number of infections than that happens among black people. Doesn't that make it a black disease first?" To which I usually get a bunch of racist rage, and then when the first person responds, they completely change the subject. Oh what fun we have on the Yahoo comments.

[Radical Ed]

gays can do what they want, im not going to bother myself with stuff other people preffer, im not gonna put em down or anything like that because its just stupid to do so and shows i have nothing better to do. i support the fact that if someone wants to do something, and its not hurting anybody then who am i to stop them. deffinately not a hero, and deffinately not a christian either. i believe jesus loves all his children and ill stick to that belief rather than be like this or youll go to hell. i mean come on how stupid does that sound?

[† Mute point]

Nevada approved same sex marriage today... So now, not only do we have one more rainbow state, but we can have drive through gay weddings! Or do we need to wait for those..? Do they need a separate window? How does this work?!

 

It reminds me of a series of joke questions a friend and I kept going for awhile... It's all about the traditions for marriage in general, and how they could be different in a same sex wedding.

 

"Which family is the Bride's family?"

"What side does everyone sit on?"

"Whose mom gets lead in first?"

"Do they lead each other in?"

"Which bride gets given away?"

"Who's planning this thing!?"

 

There were more, but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

[Malyssa Rahl]

Minor correction hun. Only the Nevada senate approved it. The house still has to vote.

[† Mute point]

Oops! >.< Stupid Yahoo article... I was totally gonna joke about finding an Elvis impersonator to marry us too!

 

Oh well. Maybe next time!

[DuLake]

Here's my thing, I just want the government (the U.S. government in my case) to get the hell away from marriage. If it's truly sacred (read: religious), then not only does the separation clause require the government to back off, but the government's meddling dilutes and defiles the meaning of the act. For example, the government offers tax incentives to people who marry, and so the sacred becomes a business transaction. By removing government regulation and incentives we allow marriage to once again be sacred, to be a holy event, and it also allows people with other creeds to celebrate their partnerships in their own way.

[mid boss]

i really don't wanna think about gay things. 2 weeks ago they made a full examination (checked at everything) some of my friend were joking saying maybe he was gay. having that idea is just ..... yek and he saw me

[† Emotional Outlet]

I don't understand. Are you saying you had a medical examination and the fact the doctor may have been gay was problematic? Did he overstep his professional boundaries or indicate in any way that he was attracted to you?

[LordLi1]

i really don't understand Homosexuality u.u. is it a mater of love? or a mater of sex?  despite popular belief sex and love are not inter related it is  a strictly a European idea.  for  thousand  of year sex and love have been to distinct things ... men loved each other in a non sexual way for a long time. and as far  as religion goes it says nothing about love only sex.  and religion at least the Abrahamic  traditions  prohibit all sex except that which is  done for the sake of producing a child.  sex for the sake of pleasure is prohibited. they reason for this can be debated to no end. 

 

As far as my own opinion goes if your religious person that that is against gay marriage  your mistaken because by that logic your using ever time you  masturbate or  have nocturnal emition your  breaking the laws of your own  religion  essentially in the same way a gay person is.

 

and this used to be such big issue  in the past that it was blamed on demons, if you  masturbated  you were possessed, if you had  nocturnal emition it was blamed on succubi.

Edited August 4, 2013 by LordLi1

[mid boss]

I don't understand. Are you saying you had a medical examination and the fact the doctor may have been gay was problematic? Did he overstep his professional boundaries or indicate in any way that he was attracted to you?

not like that the Dr was cool and all but it's just that having the idea of that made me sick

[† Mute point]

Homosexuality

 

The word, much like heterosexuality, implies a purely sexual connotation. However, for most, it is more about love than it is about sex. On both sides of the fence, I have seen this to be true.

 

 

More and more states are approving same sex marriage. It is only a matter of time before all states allow it. And probably a short time after that, people will finally realize that the world isn't crashing down around them, and they'll stop making distinctions between the various possible types of couples.

[Bluenoser]

Homosexuality

 

The word, much like heterosexuality, implies a purely sexual connotation. However, for most, it is more about love than it is about sex. On both sides of the fence, I have seen this to be true.

 

 

More and more states are approving same sex marriage. It is only a matter of time before all states allow it. And probably a short time after that, people will finally realize that the world isn't crashing down around them, and they'll stop making distinctions between the various possible types of couples.

 

Let me hear an AMEN! to that!

[DrumRoll]

The only way to solve this is lesbian mudwrestling to stop worrying about what other people are doing. If people spent less time worrying about the gay couple next door and realised there are greater priorities. Like war, economy, family and the fact that the government are most likely observing you observing this post. 

 

Tell you what, when we obtain world peace, economic stability and regain the true sense of family values then you can ban gay marriages, or try:) Priorities people, priorities. 

 

Just do what you want. Marriage is a piece of paper, a redundant concept in today's world. Live how you want today because you might get hit by a bus tomorrow:)

[mid boss]

The only way to solve this is lesbian mudwrestling to stop worrying about what other people are doing. If people spent less time worrying about the gay couple next door and realised there are greater priorities. Like war, economy, family and the fact that the government are most likely observing you observing this post. 

 

Tell you what, when we obtain world peace, economic stability and regain the true sense of family values then you can ban gay marriages, or try:) Priorities people, priorities. 

 

Just do what you want. Marriage is a piece of paper, a redundant concept in today's world. Live how you want today because you might get hit by a bus tomorrow:)

i say this is wisdom

[TRUNKSvsCELL]

I'm gay and wanna get married to a guy someday so of course i support it. What i wanna know is why people who don't hate me so much? cuz if you don't then you hate me. juss sayin lol