Chatbox Temporarily Removed

[Koby]

Too many people hang out in the CB without visiting/posting on the forum. The CB also plays a big load on the site with it's constant ajax refreshing and queries so going to see how much less is used with it gone. Also the CB accounts for 95% of all the shit and drama that happens and people end up butthurt over shit that happens there.

So... td;lr

CB is temporarily removed until forum activity picks back up.

*edit*

CB enabled, but only for those over 500 posts for the time being.

[Dan Den]

Oh well I guess it does make sense, the Forum has been rather quite lately.

*edit, strange I can actually see the CB.

[Yuno Gasai]

haha

I'll have to try and think of something really anime related now

[Hōtarō]

Ah, yes, I've seen this happen on many forums, and it's quite sad that people can't post and chat. Of course, I shouldn't be talking because I rarely post, but I usually have nothing to post in and I'm rarely in the CB anyway.

[RikuoAmero]

I must say Koby, I'm actually a bit pissed off at this move. It reminds me of the teacher putting the whole class in detention for the actions of one or two people. Plus 500 posts only? I've been on the site for a year and a half and have only gotten 291 posts. I'm on this site literally every day, but I may not actually make a post every day. One thing that could happen now is that people may spam the forums merely to get at the 500 minimum.

Perhaps you need to learn about CwF + RtB. That's Connect with Fans + Reason to Buy, a new economic way of thinking espoused by Mike Masnick on his blog Techdirt. In your case, you're disconnecting with your fans and lowering the reason for me to "buy", by removing a valuable feature.

[Koby]

I must say Koby, I'm actually a bit pissed off at this move. It reminds me of the teacher putting the whole class in detention for the actions of one or two people. Plus 500 posts only? I've been on the site for a year and a half and have only gotten 291 posts. I'm on this site literally every day, but I may not actually make a post every day. One thing that could happen now is that people may spam the forums merely to get at the 500 minimum.

Perhaps you need to learn about CwF + RtB. That's Connect with Fans + Reason to Buy, a new economic way of thinking espoused by Mike Masnick on his blog Techdirt. In your case, you're disconnecting with your fans and lowering the reason for me to "buy", by removing a valuable feature.

I had removed it completely, but decided to re-enable it for those over that. The whole removal is only temporary at this time. However as I did mention the majority of problems reside with the CB and depending on the circumstances it's likely the CB may eventually be removed entirely rather than being enabled again. The staff and I have talked about removing it entirely several times in the past year and despite all the reasons and urges I didn't want to remove such a feature although it's been the cause of a lot of the problems and negatives of the forum for a really long time.

You're point about your own posts is exactly the point. A year and a half and only 293 posts. You've got post per day average of 0.57 which is roughly only one post every other day. Point proven that you rarely actually post as it's easy to post 2-3 posts a day on average. Heck in just the last year my posts went from a little less than 4000 to over 9000. That's over a 5000 post increase in the time you've made only a portion of your 293. You know what? My daily post average is only 5.34 and I actually only post on topics I have something worth posting about and even pass up a lot of topics I could have said something in. So don't blame me for removing a feature that you haven't earned.

As for your point about spamming to 500. That's kind of unreasonable. Why would anyone bother spamming only to gain access to a CB which isn't even the point of the forum anyhow and would likely be removed or the activity requirement removed by the time they reached the point?

My point is.. your point is rather moot and just goes to prove further the reasons why this action was taken to start with although the main point of the removing wasn't the activity aspect, as I mentioned in the first post there were other reasons involved (including testing server usage).

[Xanodus]

Looks like I won't be in the CB for quite a while =/

Nah, I fully understand what you mean by doing this Koby.

[† Talena Mae]

Just a small question Koby, How about giving people who donate back the access to the CB? Unless there is a reason for you not to do that..?

I was thinking, they gave money to help keep the site up and running... so don't you think they should be allowed to access it? >.<; please don't yell at me LOL

[Hōtarō]

As for your point about spamming to 500. That's kind of unreasonable. Why would anyone bother spamming only to gain access to a CB which isn't even the point of the forum anyhow and would likely be removed or the activity requirement removed by the time they reached the point?

Oh, believe me, that happens more often than one would think. While it's not the point of the site, it's most certainly something people like. As an example, I'll take the board that I had moderated for awhile. To get to the chat, you had to have 15 posts. Every time there was a new member, they would spam the hell out of the forums just to get those 15 posts so they could join in on the chatbox. People like immediate gratification, so the chatbox is perfect for that.

[Chupathingy220]

Hey "twinArmageddons", quit harassing Koby. It's his site, and he may do with it as he wishes. And Koby, good move, I can't tell you how many times I've hopped onto the site here to find people arguing in the chatbox at the top of the page.

[Hōtarō]

Hey "twinArmageddons", quit harassing Koby. It's his site, and he may do with it as he wishes. And Koby, good move, I can't tell you how many times I've hopped onto the site here to find people arguing in the chatbox at the top of the page.

Where did you get that I was harassing him? If you bothered to read my first comment you'd see that I condone this. I wasn't harassing, I stating that people spamming to get access to a chatbox happens often, not that what he decided to do was wrong in any way.

And yes, I do realize I don't make it blatantly obvious that I condone it. I often have trouble making things more obvious than I do.

(So we don't spam this thread, if you want to continue, PM me.)

[RikuoAmero]

I had removed it completely, but decided to re-enable it for those over that. The whole removal is only temporary at this time. However as I did mention the majority of problems reside with the CB and depending on the circumstances it's likely the CB may eventually be removed entirely rather than being enabled again. The staff and I have talked about removing it entirely several times in the past year and despite all the reasons and urges I didn't want to remove such a feature although it's been the cause of a lot of the problems and negatives of the forum for a really long time.

You're point about your own posts is exactly the point. A year and a half and only 293 posts. You've got post per day average of 0.57 which is roughly only one post every other day. Point proven that you rarely actually post as it's easy to post 2-3 posts a day on average. Heck in just the last year my posts went from a little less than 4000 to over 9000. That's over a 5000 post increase in the time you've made only a portion of your 293. You know what? My daily post average is only 5.34 and I actually only post on topics I have something worth posting about and even pass up a lot of topics I could have said something in. So don't blame me for removing a feature that you haven't earned.

As for your point about spamming to 500. That's kind of unreasonable. Why would anyone bother spamming only to gain access to a CB which isn't even the point of the forum anyhow and would likely be removed or the activity requirement removed by the time they reached the point?

My point is.. your point is rather moot and just goes to prove further the reasons why this action was taken to start with although the main point of the removing wasn't the activity aspect, as I mentioned in the first post there were other reasons involved (including testing server usage).

Regarding my posting average...I only post when I have something decent to say. I tend to hang out in the Naruto, Tech Centre, Mako Reactor and Balamb Cafe sections. I may not post every day, but when I do, I make sure its something important or interesting to be said. Look at how many threads I've started, and how many responses they've gathered.

Now, don't get me wrong...that doesn't mean that your average equates to your posts being dumb or of a lesser quality. Far from it, your posts are often quite informative, from what I've seen, and an enjoyable read. Plus, you would obviously have a higher average, being the head Admin here.

Yes, people may spam, although as you said, spamming to 500 posts will not be very likely.

But, the one thing I hate in today's digital era, is the removal of features that were once free. Take the NYTimes website paywall. Their articles were once free, but then they put up a wall you had to get around. In your case, the wall to get around is a posting limit, in other words, my time. Or Sony's removal of Linux support in the PS3...I could get it back (well, not on my Slim model that I have now) by learning how to program and hack.

As for arguments in the CB...call me blind to them if you wish, but whenever I'm online here at Kamesu, I've never really seen anything bad. I admit to using foul language a few times, and sometimes people act crazy (as in haha crazy funny, Rinoa comes to mind), but crazy as in hurtful and offensive? Nope, I've never seen that.

EDIT: If it's just maybe for a few days, to test server usage as you said...I won't mind that much. Just keep in mind, I'm not the only one who loves the Chatbox here on Kametsu. I understand, server costs are higher with a CB, so obviously us donators will have to step up to the plate (or in my case, start donating again entirely ^^)

[Goldstandard90]

I must say Koby, I'm actually a bit pissed off at this move. It reminds me of the teacher putting the whole class in detention for the actions of one or two people. Plus 500 posts only? I've been on the site for a year and a half and have only gotten 291 posts. I'm on this site literally every day, but I may not actually make a post every day. One thing that could happen now is that people may spam the forums merely to get at the 500 minimum.

Perhaps you need to learn about CwF + RtB. That's Connect with Fans + Reason to Buy, a new economic way of thinking espoused by Mike Masnick on his blog Techdirt. In your case, you're disconnecting with your fans and lowering the reason for me to "buy", by removing a valuable feature.

I have to agree completely with this post. I'm not going to lie and say I'm the most active poster because I'm not, that's how I am in general with forums, one I used to frequent took me 2 years to get to 1000 posts. While I do agree with the idea that the forums do need to be active I believe Rikuo is right in the fact that you're causing a disconnect at least for myself personally as well as some other people. Personally I like the cbox, I may not always be on it but when it's not dead I do enjoy talking with the people there, people I really have no other concrete way of talking to (well there's PMs but that's pretty slow imo).

Personally the forums I've found myself coming back to are forums that have 1) good content and 2) good friendly community, and while I do not know what problems may or may not have been taking place there I can at least say I've always had a friendly experience with the cbox. People will cause drama, somebody always will, why should you make the majority pay for the actions of a few individuals, wouldn't it be easier to just take care of them instead? Speaking for myself I have less reason to come here when I can now which is a shame because I did enjoy talking to others on the cbox while I could, and well I'm not just going to aimlessly post in the forums to raise my post count if i really don't feel a reason to contribute in said post. Doubt anyone would miss me anyway but alas its a shame.

[Koby]

I think people are missing the point that this is only temporary at this time. The CB will be back to normal eventually. Surely one week without a CB won't kill you.

[Dan Den]

I think people are missing the point that this is only temporary at this time. The CB will be back to normal eventually. Surely one week without a CB won't kill you.

I guess people don't read that part they just read the important or crucial part, or you could say the part with the most bad news something like that. No offense to anyone.

[RikuoAmero]

I think people are missing the point that this is only temporary at this time. The CB will be back to normal eventually. Surely one week without a CB won't kill you.

A week? That's pushing it Koby...but I'll shut up about it for now. If you need more donations, let us know. I'll start again this Friday, once I get paid.

My previous word of caution above still stands though. A forum thrives on communication and closing off a method of communication goes against that.

Anyhoo, I said I'll shut up, so I will be.

By the way, message for everybody else. Anyone know of a different IM method we could all use in the meantime. I've heard of IRC, but have never used it. Perhaps someone could show me how to set one up and we could all use it during the week?

[Hōtarō]

By the way, message for everybody else. Anyone know of a different IM method we could all use in the meantime. I've heard of IRC, but have never used it. Perhaps someone could show me how to set one up and we could all use it during the week?

I believe Uji had already set up an IRC for here, but I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not. I think Shazi has mentioned various MSN parties, and I'm sure someone could have a Skype party (which would probably be better, since the people who might want to use their microphones can, while others type).

[Koby]

By the way, message for everybody else. Anyone know of a different IM method we could all use in the meantime. I've heard of IRC, but have never used it. Perhaps someone could show me how to set one up and we could all use it during the week?

Well I'm not too knowledgeable on IRC either.. but I've made one at: irc://irc.rizon.net/Kametsu

Though most of the members of Kametsu have either MSN messenger (now called Windows Live Messenger) or Skype (mostly MSN).

[RikuoAmero]

I believe Uji had already set up an IRC for here, but I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not. I think Shazi has mentioned various MSN parties, and I'm sure someone could have a Skype party (which would probably be better, since the people who might want to use their microphones can, while others type).

Skype parties sound good in theory, but are even more bandwidth intensive than the CB. In my case, I have Kametsu open in the browser on my smaller secondary screen, while I have Youtube or whatever open on my main screen. This means, I can devote a little bit of attention to Kametsu, while focusing on what I'm mainly doing. If I see a CB message that looks interesting, I'll drop in and say hey. Same thing I'll be doing with the IM replacement hopefully, an informal system where you can just drop in and say whatever, whereas (for me at least) forum posts are a bit more formal, have to be more thought out and better constructed. What I say in the Chatbox I would never say in the forums.

Well I'm not too knowledgeable on IRC either.. but I've made one at: irc://irc.rizon.net/Kametsu

CHEERS!!!! Thanks Koby! Let's see...I can send...maybe 40 euros this Friday? Dunno what that converts to in dollars though, but I'll donate that much. And as Mae said...it would be a good idea for donators to get back CB (hint, hint).

EDIT: Okay, I've using mIRC...and now we'll have to agree on a channel. Anyone got any ideas? There's a lot of them!

[Nero D. Ace]

Well, I was one of the staff who initially requested that the CB service be turned down, so now that the shit's hit the fan, I'm not about to turn tail and run.

So, before the flaming escalates, mind if we turn this into a discussion about WHY the CB was there to begin with i.e. what it's function was.

Now, in my view, and I'm just saying MY VIEW, the CB was a place where newbies who'd never forum'd before could come up and get used to the place. Ask questions of our oldies and find a place to get comfortable.

And in my view, and again, i stress MY VIEW, we have utterly and completely failed. More often than once, I've witnessed a scene in which a newbie came to the CB and asked a stupid question like "Where/How do i post?" or "1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 4 ... 5 ... i'm off to get my anime." and yes, I know they're stupid questions but these guys are noobs, just like you once were (Surely you didn't become a master at Halo withing 10 minutes after playing it?) and what do i see but them getting rebuked angrily to just go figure it out (yes, I'm pointing at you, oldies. Like it or not, in a way, it's your fault the CB closed down.)

Now, I've said this before and it may sound a lot like reminiscing, but in reality, it's something that happened less than a year ago.

For upto 6 months after i joined, the only thing we talked about on the CB were plans of world domination, the kind of stuff we'd done that day or how epic it was when Goku fought Vegeta.

Then, somewhere along the line, something came along to the CB that changed it forever.

DEBATING.

Okay, people. You gotta realize this - the CB is not a personal moping ground, neither is it a place too discuss the newest nuclear strategies. We have the FORUM BOARDS for that.

If you posted in the boards all the stuff you talked about in the CB, i GUARANTEE you'd all have had 500+ posts by now.

Now, getting back to the famous argument of "We make friends more easily in the CB", I'll just quote an example from my time here -

1. I joined up, intending on getting some anime downloads.
   
2. I saw a post in the Naruto board which I didn't agree to.
   
3. I posted my view about it.
   
4. The thread starter saw it and posted his review about it.
   
5. World War 79 erupted.
   
6. In the end, we both said that it was nothing worth getting worked up about and came to a calm discussion.
   

In this way, I interacted with most members around here whilst NEVER going to the CB. Hell, if I remember correctly, my first time at the CB was at least 2 or 3 weeks AFTER i joined up.

---

Now, that's one side spoken for. This isn't to say that removing the CB entirely was the best idea.

The best idea would've been to enforce the rules of the CB viz. if someone starts shit up, just mute the guy.

No warnings. No do overs.

Mute the guy and wait for him/her to calm the fuck down and if they don't, perm mute them.

I get that it's nice having a lenient staff which isn't on a power trip all the time but when the public takes advantage of that, it's time to put a foot down.

Another way of handling this could be by including more customizable features in the vbShop. So far, the only things there are stuff which let you change your appearance somewhat but if we add some features like "Buying IMG posting privileged" or a new set of smileys, it might encourage people to actually spend their Gil and there will be a time when they run out of it and will HAVE to post to earn more.

It's all experimental however and I can't confirm whether it'll succeed or fail.

In the end, it comes down to the quality of our members and whether they can expand or not.