Latest Naruto Manga Discussion [Spoiler]

[raikagesama]

I actually hated this chapter because it shows the lack of logic or reason present in Naruto.

We see Minato and Kushina having a conversation all the while Kushina is bleeding to death or something. You'd think Minato as a responsible husband would Hiraishin to the hospital to fetch a nurse, don't you think? No, he's dead set on making sure his son grows up an orphan.

Then theres the way the Dead Demon Seal works. If you look carefully, the jutsu has already been cast but not sealed. The Fox is chained up and immobilised by Kushina. So what's the rush? Apparently, the DDS can be sealed whenever you want. If Kishimoto were actually able to think things through, the Fourth Hokage would have planned out the situation thusly.

1) There's a giant freakin' fox just over there. I have to make sure its not a threat.

2) Ah great, my wife just chained it up. I knew that jutsu had a use outside of the bedroom ^^

3) Crap, she's bleeding heavily. Better fetch a nurse and doctor, hopefully Tsunade is still around...

4) Hey, honey, feeling better with that medical jutsu. By the way, I told Sarutobi about Madara. This way, in case I die, he can do something about him, instead of ruling for the next twelve years unaware of who's responsible for this.

That last point is what makes me sigh in annoyance. It shows Kishimoto just writes the story as he goes along, without any thought for consistency. Minato is shown having had time to write down "the key to the seal", summon a toad and send it to Jiraiya. Maybe he could have written "P.S. It wuz Madara Uchiha".

When the manga was first written, the Fox attack was a natural disaster, in Kishimoto's mind. The Fourth sealed it, and the Third just had to worry about Naruto being safe. Then Itachi comes along and says it was Madara. Okay...so only an Akatsuki could have learned this. Now, we see the Fourth deducing his attacker's identity, and not bothering to pass along the information?

obviously your thinking about it from a 2d perspective. the fourth hokage didnt have time to do all those things you mention also there was a barrier around him and his wife the thrid couldnt get thru and he wasnt close enough to be told about the attacker. secondly the fourth did what was best for the village and what he thought would be best for his son, things were happening much faster than what you think they are. its not as simple as you have made it out to be. and if you go back and read everything ties together.

[RikuoAmero]

obviously your thinking about it from a 2d perspective. the fourth hokage didnt have time to do all those things you mention also there was a barrier around him and his wife the thrid couldnt get thru and he wasnt close enough to be told about the attacker. secondly the fourth did what was best for the village and what he thought would be best for his son, things were happening much faster than what you think they are. its not as simple as you have made it out to be. and if you go back and read everything ties together.

You're wrong. http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/33928369/10

That page shows the Fourth summoning Gamabunta, and who's also in the panel? The Third, that's who. Either take five seconds to tell him, or get a Shadow Clone to do it.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/3

In the bottom panels, you can see the Shinigami just floating there, so the jutsu isn't immediately fatal.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/5

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/6

Again, as I said, Minato could have taken a minute out of his time to run over to the Third and say what was going on. He clearly didn't have to seal the Fox right at that second, his wife was holding it immobilized.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/10

Again, he has the time to write down the key to the seal. As I said before, P.S. Madara Uchiha. All of five seconds.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/12

And Kushina's advice to Naruto re: Women? So the reason Naruto crushed on Sakura during his childhood years isn't because he liked her, its because on the day of his birth he was able to hear his mother and understand her when she said go for strange hair coloured women who are loud and violent.

[raikagesama]

You're wrong. http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/33928369/10

That page shows the Fourth summoning Gamabunta, and who's also in the panel? The Third, that's who. Either take five seconds to tell him, or get a Shadow Clone to do it.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/3

In the bottom panels, you can see the Shinigami just floating there, so the jutsu isn't immediately fatal.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/5

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/6

Again, as I said, Minato could have taken a minute out of his time to run over to the Third and say what was going on. He clearly didn't have to seal the Fox right at that second, his wife was holding it immobilized.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/10

Again, he has the time to write down the key to the seal. As I said before, P.S. Madara Uchiha. All of five seconds.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/12

And Kushina's advice to Naruto re: Women? So the reason Naruto crushed on Sakura during his childhood years isn't because he liked her, its because on the day of his birth he was able to hear his mother and understand her when she said go for strange hair coloured women who are loud and violent.

again your looking at it from 2d perspective you should go back and read and pay more attention to details. he summoned gamabunta to hold off the fox until he use his teleportation jutsu and then he teleported the fox to a safe distance. it sooo obvious your not paying attention to everything thats going on in EVERY panel dont just choose one panel to prove your point. here let me show you something you missed sense you want to use panels http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/5 if you look at the bottom panel and payed attention you can see that minato is a very far distance from where the third is and he cant just run over to him as kushina is barely holding on to conscienceness and could lose control of the fox at any moment. again he didnt have time to run that far to the third hokage and then he was already using a barrier jutsu to contain the fox to just that area

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/6 and gamabunta was not there. if you read and comprehend well you would realise that things happened in a faster matter than what your actually reading a few minutes in the manga could equally up to reading five chapters. nice try though.

[RikuoAmero]

again your looking at it from 2d perspective you should go back and read and pay more attention to details. he summoned gamabunta to hold off the fox until he use his teleportation jutsu and then he teleported the fox to a safe distance. it sooo obvious your not paying attention to everything thats going on in EVERY panel dont just choose one panel to prove your point. here let me show you something you missed sense you want to use panels http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/5 if you look at the bottom panel and payed attention you can see that minato is a very far distance from where the third is and he cant just run over to him as kushina is barely holding on to conscienceness and could lose control of the fox at any moment. again he didnt have time to run that far to the third hokage and then he was already using a barrier jutsu to contain the fox to just that area

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71771778/6 and gamabunta was not there. if you read and comprehend well you would realise that things happened in a faster matter than what your actually reading a few minutes in the manga could equally up to reading five chapters. nice try though.

I'm not using one panel, I showed you several examples. Plus what is 2d thinking? If I am 2d thinking, maybe its because its a manga, drawn on a two dimensional piece of paper. As for Kushina barely holding onto conscienceness, she was conscious long enough to give her son a few pointers in life.

As for the key to the seal, I noticed you didn't have a response to that. Because you can't have one. You could say "He prepared it beforehand", but he couldn't have. The story goes that Kushina is giving birth and all the seals, and ANBU security were there to make sure that the Fox doesn't escape. He never had a plan or intention to seal the fox in anyone else. And even if by some wild stretch of imagination he did have the key, he could have just told the summoned toad orally "Yo, toad, tell Jiraiya it was Madara Uchiha". By not saying this, all the Third Hokage and Jiraiya know is that Minato and Kushina are dead, and somehow the Fox got loose. Yes, they would eventually find the bodies of the dead ANBU, and the Third's wife, but they won't learn anything from that. Jiraiya will go investigating with his spy network more than likely, but literally won't have a clue to go on.

All right, in 503, Minato was busy with teleporting the Fox here and there, but in 504, he had plenty of chances to tell the Third. Even if the barrier stopped sound, he could have written down on a piece of paper and showed it to the old man, then sealed the fox.

[Nero D. Ace]

1) There's a giant freakin' fox just over there. I have to make sure its not a threat.

2) Ah great, my wife just chained it up. I knew that jutsu had a use outside of the bedroom ^^

3) Crap, she's bleeding heavily. Better fetch a nurse and doctor, hopefully Tsunade is still around...

4) Hey, honey, feeling better with that medical jutsu. By the way, I told Sarutobi about Madara. This way, in case I die, he can do something about him, instead of ruling for the next twelve years unaware of who's responsible for this.

lolz, dats some funny shit even though i agree with rai. there wasn't time to do all that.

and also, ur forgetting that time in manga does not behave like normal time. sometimes, it's slower. sometimes, it's faster.

for example, take DBZ, the arc where Goku fights Frieza and Frieza blows up the planet. he says that the planet will be destroyed in 3minutes, yet they both take their sweet time (about 7 episodes) to finish their battle.

so, even though it looks like minato had spare time, he actually didn't

as for the fact that he couldv'e written it down, i don't think anyone wouldv'e believed it. even kakashi didn't believe it so readily. if he had written "Madura Uchiha is behind this", the people might have thought that he was writing in code and suspected the entire Uchiha clan, thus starting a coup (although that did start on its own a while later).

anyways, i consider these are the reasons minato didn't do as u expected.

As for me, i'm just glad that damn flashback era is over!!!!!!!!!

[RikuoAmero]

lolz, dats some funny shit even though i agree with rai. there wasn't time to do all that.

and also, ur forgetting that time in manga does not behave like normal time. sometimes, it's slower. sometimes, it's faster.

for example, take DBZ, the arc where Goku fights Frieza and Frieza blows up the planet. he says that the planet will be destroyed in 3minutes, yet they both take their sweet time (about 7 episodes) to finish their battle.

so, even though it looks like minato had spare time, he actually didn't

as for the fact that he couldv'e written it down, i don't think anyone wouldv'e believed it. even kakashi didn't believe it so readily. if he had written "Madura Uchiha is behind this", the people might have thought that he was writing in code and suspected the entire Uchiha clan, thus starting a coup (although that did start on its own a while later).

anyways, i consider these are the reasons minato didn't do as u expected.

As for me, i'm just glad that damn flashback era is over!!!!!!!!!

So, time runs slower/faster...Never knew that. And about DBZ, never watched it. It does sound fucked up that 3 minutes take 7 episodes to play out. In your example, do those 7 episodes literally consist of Goku and Frieza, or do they show what the other characters were doing during those minutes? That reminds me of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Book 10, Crossroads of Twilight, which is a few hundred pages long, and yet only details one day in that world.

Seriously, my entire argument is how bad of a writer Kishimoto is. He wants to tell a story. He draws it and publishes it. And you tell me time runs differently. How the fuck am I supposed to figure that out? If the author intends for time to run faster or slower show a clock or something.

When Naruto first came out, the backstory was there was a demon fox attack, and the Fourth sealed it inside Naruto. Then along came Madara Uchiha. Itachi said he was the cause of the Fox. Madara denied it. Madara revealed the reason for the Uchiha massacre was because Konoha's leadership were suspicious of the Uchiha. This suspiscion arose because they thought the Uchiha were responsible for the Fox.

But why? Because the Sharingan is known to be able to control the Fox. Fair enough, we readers said at the time. (Although why the clan as a group would unleash what is essentially the Naruto equivalent of a nuke on the same village they live in, is never asked)

Now, we have this flashback where we see Minato and Kushina preparing for childbirth. There is ANBU security and seals drawn. From the Third Hokage's persperctive, the Fox somehow gets loose, kills a bunch of people, and then is immobilised by Kushina. He can't get through a barrier, but can see (and more than likely hear through it) Minato preparing to seal the fox. Although we don't see it, he must have shouted "WTF Happened!" After all, Minato was hailed as the greatest seal master ever, so he couldn't have screwed up. And as for not believing him, Minato is the freaking Hokage Why would Sarutobi not believe him?

So now we have Konoha's leadership witness to what looks like the Fox simply got loose. Thus, they would have no reason to suspect it was planned, much less by the Uchiha. It would have made more sense if maybe Sarutobi saw a bit of Minato vs Madara, maybe got a glimpse of the Sharingan, then Minato was simply too busy to say who. (or time ran faster as you say, which again we have no firsthand evidence for)

Another piece of beef is the fact Itachi slaughtered the clan. It was established early on that he killed the entire clan, ninjas, women and children alike, except for Sasuke. That established him as a villain. Then Kishimoto wanted to redeem him, say he only did it under orders from Konoha, because the clan was plotting. Okay, but then if he's a good guy now, why commit clan genocide? Why kill the women and children? This is proof that Kishimoto never planned ahead for Itachi to actually be loyal to Konoha all along. He threw it in there, never minding that it messed up the whole massacre deal.

Another problem is Tsunade becoming Hokage. The two advisors to the Third are surprisingly okay with her being Hokage, even though at the time, she had abandoned the village and was known widely to be a drunken wandering gambler Not someone you want running a village.

Similarly, is Gaara becoming the Fifth Kazekage. After the aborted invasion, his village is left without a leader. Prior to that, Gaara was rightly believed to be a bloodthirsty murdering maniac. Okay, he had a change of heart after losing to Naruto, but it would have taken months if not years for his people to accept his new personality. That leaves him being the son of the prievious Kage as one of only two reasons. Except Kankuro's the older brother. The last reason is simply because he's the strongest, which again doesn't make sense (we're the Sand Village, and we love our Kage, he's the strongest and gentlest person we've ever met, even though he hasn't had a chance yet to show). It's like Barack Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize, without having any significant accomplishments that merit it.

[raikagesama]

lolz, dats some funny shit even though i agree with rai. there wasn't time to do all that.

and also, ur forgetting that time in manga does not behave like normal time. sometimes, it's slower. sometimes, it's faster.

for example, take DBZ, the arc where Goku fights Frieza and Frieza blows up the planet. he says that the planet will be destroyed in 3minutes, yet they both take their sweet time (about 7 episodes) to finish their battle.

so, even though it looks like minato had spare time, he actually didn't

as for the fact that he couldv'e written it down, i don't think anyone wouldv'e believed it. even kakashi didn't believe it so readily. if he had written "Madura Uchiha is behind this", the people might have thought that he was writing in code and suspected the entire Uchiha clan, thus starting a coup (although that did start on its own a while later).

anyways, i consider these are the reasons minato didn't do as u expected.

As for me, i'm just glad that damn flashback era is over!!!!!!!!!

Thank you punner for making it more simple for him to understand if you have read the whole manga and are current and have watched the show its not hard to understand the TIME PERSPECTIVE!!! you must be new to manga's rikuo.

[Nero D. Ace]

Another problem is Tsunade becoming Hokage. The two advisors to the Third are surprisingly okay with her being Hokage, even though at the time, she had abandoned the village and was known widely to be a drunken wandering gambler Not someone you want running a village.

Similarly, is Gaara becoming the Fifth Kazekage. After the aborted invasion, his village is left without a leader. Prior to that, Gaara was rightly believed to be a bloodthirsty murdering maniac. Okay, he had a change of heart after losing to Naruto, but it would have taken months if not years for his people to accept his new personality. That leaves him being the son of the prievious Kage as one of only two reasons. Except Kankuro's the older brother. The last reason is simply because he's the strongest, which again doesn't make sense (we're the Sand Village, and we love our Kage, he's the strongest and gentlest person we've ever met, even though he hasn't had a chance yet to show). It's like Barack Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize, without having any significant accomplishments that merit it.

for the first one, it's not really as if they had a choice. it wasn't as if the village was crawling full of super ninjas at that time. alcoholic or not, she had skills as a medical ninja and was a Sannin.

as for Gaara, if u watch the anime closely enough(i think it was in the first 5 episodes of shippuden), in a flashback of gaara, it is revealed that the council made him kazekage more so that they could keep an eye on him. later, when he saves the village and becomes a hero, he gains the respect of everyone.

as for the not believing him part, i said that they could misinterpret mis message, like he was sending a code or something like jiraiya used. by blaming maduara uchiha and not giving a full explanation, it would just baffle them all.

how would u feel if a certain disaster were to strike tomorrow, and the president would say "Adolf Hitler did this". you'd say "the guy's off his rocker" of course.

[RikuoAmero]

Fine, I'm not gonna continue anymore on this thread. I am not new to manga, have been reading them for years.

I raised some valid points. I like the Naruto world, the fights and characters are interesting and varied, its why I prefered watching it to Dragonball (the variety of combat such as Gaara's sand and Kimmimmaro's bones vs non stop muscular men wailing on each with punches and kicks, and occassional energy bolts).

What I never liked were some of the plotholes and gaping issues Kishimoto left us readers with.

You guys go on about time perspective. I actually do know about it. I remember it being used for example in Yugioh, in the first Yugi v Pegasus duel. Then it was used effectively. The two are on a 15 minute time limit, and we the viewers are shown the timer several times. Time does run differently, and we know because we see it.

Here in this manga chapter, I didn't see anything at all to do with time. So how am I as a reader supposed to know time ran slower/faster? I only have the information as shown on the pages.

As for Tsunade. She's a Sannin? And the best medical user? Wow, I totally did not know that (sarc marc). But apparently, because Kishimoto is such a bad writer, ability alone is what counts in his world. As I said, drunken gambler at the time. I thought the position of Hokage meant a certain type of character (Shodai brought two warring clans together - Senju + Uchiha; Niidaime established the Academy and sacrificed himself for a squad of his subordinates. Sandaime was ruthless during his rule, with the Cloud/Hyuuga crisis, the Second and Third Ninja Wars; Yondaime was all heroic and stuff, sacrificing his life to seal the Fox). What Kishimoto wrote there was the advisors merely went on ability alone, not caring about Tsunade's character or beliefs. If they thought of ability alone and didn't care about anything else, then there are stronger ninja than Tsunade: why not invite oh...I don't know...Danzo? Ya know, that old war buzzard who's such great pals with them? Maybe because at the time of that chapter release, Danzo hadn't been written yet. That left another great plot hole when he was introduced to us readers: that would have been the perfect time for him to take over legally, instead of waiting until the current hokage was merely in a coma, rather than dead.

And Gaara became Kage so they could keep an eye on him? Couldn't they do that already, him being a Sand Ninja and all? If they wanted to keep an eye on him because they don't trust him (with good reason), then why give him authority and power? Remember, this guy didn't make it through the Chuunin exams, and didn't show any kind of talent. Yes, he has control over sand, but how does that help in the running of a village? Or the handing out of missions to the correct people? Or in foreign relations (Greetings, I'm the Kazekage, yes I was a homicidal maniac but not anymore. WHY ARE YOU RUNNING AWAY!!!!!) As a viewer, I was left with the impression that Gaara went through his Genin missions relying entirely on his Sand shield for defense, as in he didn't put any effort in at all. Okay, he had stealth (Naruto couldn't detect him at first, but that was Naruto). I've heard countless times from others why Naruto wouldn't make a good Hokage and most of them boil down to he's inexperienced in leadership and has shown no great strategical thinking skills. Exactly like Gaara.

There, I've destroyed your arguments with needle-sharp logic. Something that is not present in the Naruto manga/anime, in any great deal. Back when I first saw it, it was fresh and interesting, but watching it left me screaming in my mind. There are such great plot holes, its insulting to me as a viewer.

And yes, I know I don't have to read the manga if I feel its insulting. I do it by choice, to see how it'll end, to see if Kishimoto can re-arrange his brain and pull out a half-arsed ending that makes some kind of sense. But no, we're shown a world where the characters make decisions that to them must surely be insane, but are made entirely for plot reasons (choosing Tsunade as Hokage meant there was an excuse for Jiraiya to go looking for her, to introduce her character, nothing more)

f

how would u feel if a certain disaster were to strike tomorrow, and the president would say "Adolf Hitler did this". you'd say "the guy's off his rocker" of course.

Because in our world, theree aren't ways to live forever. Whereas in the Naruto world, it is accepted that there are ways to become immortal. The Third has heard of them, doesn't use them himself of course. Plus if they did misinterpret the (message he could have written but actually didn't), then it would have given a basis for their later suspiscion of the Uchiha clan.

[Nero D. Ace]

seriously, dude. why do u write such long posts. i get bored reading through all of them and skip through.

as for logic, well Naruto is a place where people breathe fire, walk on water, summon toads and whatnot.

any type of logic is useless in here. also, if u have been reading manga for a long-time, u would know about the fact that time runs differently

as for the fact that danzo hadn't been created back then, well maybe he wasn't. but, isn't that the best thing about manga, that you don't have to plan everything out 5 years ahead. why do u think they only release 1 chapter a week?

it's not a damn book u know.

[RikuoAmero]

seriously, dude. why do u write such long posts. i get bored reading through all of them and skip through.

as for logic, well Naruto is a place where people breathe fire, walk on water, summon toads and whatnot.

any type of logic is useless in here. also, if u have been reading manga for a long-time, u would know about the fact that time runs differently

as for the fact that danzo hadn't been created back then, well maybe he wasn't. but, isn't that the best thing about manga, that you don't have to plan everything out 5 years ahead. why do u think they only release 1 chapter a week?

it's not a damn book u know.

Not my problem if you get bored. I at least have the decency to write out my arguments in a logical and coherent manner.

"Naruto is a place where people breathe fire..." That's called suspension of disbelief. Where the audience subconsciously agrees to belief in all these magical powers. However, what the audience will look for, every time no matter what story you're writing, is logic and consisctency. I like that the characters can breathe fire and walk on water. I don't like when they make bonehead decisions that they should have made. Minato decided to seal the fox because he was thinking about the good of the village. That's his character, his belief, his way of looking at the world and his place in it. Then why doesn't he tell anyone about Madara?

"You don't have to plan everything out 5 years ahead". That works only when the story you write 5 years ahead can link well with what you've written beforehand, and doesn't leave plot-holes large enough for Choji Meat-Tank Mode to roll through.

"u would know about the fact that time runs differently" I do know about it, thank you very much. I even gave an example. As I've said, how was I supposed to know the flow of time in that chapter? In the Yugioh episode I mentioned, a clock is shown: minutes go by in less than thirty seconds. Yet here, I'm supposed to guess or something? What I'm arguin is that I can only know things about the story as I'm shown them. There is no none nada indication that time runs faster/slower. From what I can from the pages is that Minato and Kushina spend at least five or ten minutes talking to each other and Naruto. There would have been time for Minato to Hiraishin to get a doctor to help Kushina etc. The only reason he didn't is Kishimoto had written in earlier chapters that the couple died. This is taking the decision the characters should have made out of their world and purely into the hands of the author. Have you ever heard someone say "Stories write themselves". That's when characters make decisions based on their beliefs in the story. If Kishimoto decides next week to write that Minato was a known child rapist, it would be the same problem: he's writing something that doesn't fit at all with what he wrote before, and makes his story and characters seem stupid.

[Nero D. Ace]

the fact that minato didn't rush for a doctor was because he knew kushina's injures were serious.

as for tsunade, she had left the village cause her lover and brother had been killed in the war.

rather than trying in vain to save her from an inevitable death, he chose to let her have a few moments with her son. that was done for his character development cause the writer wants to do a spin-off on Minato's younger days after naruto is finished.

besides, these decisions were made in Real-time. it's not as if he could sit down in a chair, light a cigar and ponder on what his next move should be.

he was under a lot of stress and he made the best decision that he could. if u don't think so, so be it but i for one respects that he let the mother have those few moments with naruto, considering it greatly shaped the way he grew up.

[RikuoAmero]

the fact that minato didn't rush for a doctor was because he knew kushina's injures were serious.

as for tsunade, she had left the village cause her lover and brother had been killed in the war.

rather than trying in vain to save her from an inevitable death, he chose to let her have a few moments with her son. that was done for his character development cause the writer wants to do a spin-off on Minato's younger days after naruto is finished.

besides, these decisions were made in Real-time. it's not as if he could sit down in a chair, light a cigar and ponder on what his next move should be.

he was under a lot of stress and he made the best decision that he could. if u don't think so, so be it but i for one respects that he let the mother have those few moments with naruto, considering it greatly shaped the way he grew up.

How does Minato know her death is inevitable? He's not a doctor. Okay, he knows war wounds, he's a veteran, but still...Seems to me, Kishimoto made him out to be an irresponsible husband, which leads us back again to Kishimoto being a bad writer

"Hey honey, great news! You're wounded, but I'm not gonna bother getting a doctor. I'm just gonna pronounce you wounded beyond any hope of survival, so no biggies. Here, talk to a baby, that'll make you feel better".

And Tsunade wasn't in the village. YES! You must then finally agree that that means she should never have been considered for the position of Hokage. After all, Hokages are the kind of people who live for their village, who work hard to ensure their survival, not people who run away...wait, why was she chosen again?

"that was done for his character development cause the writer wants to do a spin-off on Minato's younger days after naruto is finished." First off, there is no character development if he's DEAD. Second, there is no character development if he's doing something that goes totally against his character, like NOT BOTHERING AT ALL TO ENSURE HIS WIFE SURVIVES. He has basically two kinds of character in this story: 1) As Hokage, he hears Kushina saying she'll pull the fox back into her, and then die, thus killing the fox. As Hokage, he would have accepted this, after all, at least Naruto would grow up with one parent, rather than an orphan, plus the village would be safe. 2)As a husband, he would have gotten a doctor, not one of Tsunade's skill obviously, but someone who could have helped. Third, what does a decision made when he's about to die have to do with a story that will take place when he's younger? Unless you're thinking of the Matrix trilogy, where the Oracle explains to Neo he has already made a life-changing choice, but that's the Matrix.

"besides, these decisions were made in Real-time". Oh, so now you're abandoning the concept of time running differently in anime/manga? It was established in the last few chapters that he's able to think well on his feet i.e., he catches Naruto, teleports him to safety, goes to fight Madara, is able to figure out who he is and a strategy to beat him and the fox. So then why wouldn't he be able to think four words "Kushina needs medical attention". Its because Kishimoto here is making the characters act totally out of character.

Let me tell you something this reminds me of. Years ago, on the TV show Sabrina the Teenage Witch. Don't know if you watched it. In one episode, Sabrina gets a magic type-writer and writes a story. Her characters become real. One of them, Dr. Bad, takes over her school. Desperate to save the school, Sabrina writes simply that he does a square-dance. At first, Dr. Bad does this, but then refuses. Sabrina's aunt chimes in that the reason for the refusal is because doing this is against his character, and thus won't work in the story. Sabrina has to write a believable story that makes sense. So what does she do? She writes that another character was trained in bomb-defusing, and saves the day.

Here we have the exact opposite. Here Minato has the ability, the knowledge and the opportunity to save everyone, wife, son and village, but Kishimoto writes that he doesn't, in a half-hearted attempt to link this chapter with previous chapters where he died.

Yes the chapter was touching, where Kushina has her one and only conversation with Naruto, but its overshadowed by the author's bone-headed way of going about things.

[† Talena Mae]

Ok, Everyone you all need to calm down. If it keeps up I will close this thread and give each of you a warning.

Remember: it is just a manga, in no way shape or feel is it real. the writer wanted naruto's fokes to die so guess what they died.

[RikuoAmero]

Fine, fine, I'll stop. I've said my piece and am done.

[Koby]

In this arguement, I'd have to agree with RikouAmero, even if time was short, he still had time to do all that other shit, and even if someone might have thought it to be code, he could have at least given a sign or clue to the whole ordeal. Like Rikou said... PS. It's Madara. Something.

Sure his love was dying right in front of him, and he'd want to die to be with her, but on the other hand, he had a living breathing son that could have really needed him growing up. It isn't really the brightest decision to make, orphaning a child with just rashness.

The timing issue is something I never really liked. I mean, if you only have 10 seconds, why draw it out and make it look like 10 minutes? In the Anime Naruto recently defeated Pain. He had 5 seconds to get to him before Pain could "push" him away again.. so whats he do? Instead he explains what he is going to do, which btw took at least 15 seconds (counting), before he tosses himself with shadow clones at Pain. See this screwed up timing really makes it in the end even make less sense.

You got 5 seconds? Don't explain shit Naruto just beat Pains ass quickly!

[Nero D. Ace]

The timing issue is something I never really liked. I mean, if you only have 10 seconds, why draw it out and make it look like 10 minutes? In the Anime Naruto recently defeated Pain. He had 5 seconds to get to him before Pain could "push" him away again.. so whats he do? Instead he explains what he is going to do, which btw took at least 15 seconds (counting), before he tosses himself with shadow clones at Pain. See this screwed up timing really makes it in the end even make less sense.

You got 5 seconds? Don't explain shit Naruto just beat Pains ass quickly!

lolz, well that's manga for u, koby. it's a pain in the ass, to be sure, the way they explain their plan out for everyone to hear instead of just striking the killing blow.

but, then again, the writers have to meet their 20 page quota a week EVERY week.

and sometimes, they just hit a mental block. as loyal fans, we should cut em some slack sometimes.

[RikuoAmero]

In this arguement, I'd have to agree with RikouAmero, even if time was short, he still had time to do all that other shit, and even if someone might have thought it to be code, he could have at least given a sign or clue to the whole ordeal. Like Rikou said... PS. It's Madara. Something.

Sure his love was dying right in front of him, and he'd want to die to be with her, but on the other hand, he had a living breathing son that could have really needed him growing up. It isn't really the brightest decision to make, orphaning a child with just rashness.

The timing issue is something I never really liked. I mean, if you only have 10 seconds, why draw it out and make it look like 10 minutes? In the Anime Naruto recently defeated Pain. He had 5 seconds to get to him before Pain could "push" him away again.. so whats he do? Instead he explains what he is going to do, which btw took at least 15 seconds (counting), before he tosses himself with shadow clones at Pain. See this screwed up timing really makes it in the end even make less sense.

You got 5 seconds? Don't explain shit Naruto just beat Pains ass quickly!

Thank you! Someone here understands. I'm wiring 20 bucks now as a donation.

[raikagesama]

i honestly dont see any plot holes as i have been reading the manga sense it started and i look at it form a 4d perspective. everything ties together fine thats like saying for instance in batman why did the waynes go down a deep dark alley or how as bruce wayne not aged sense the 50's its because thats a part of the story it doesnt mean its a plot hole and you cant say its a plot hole because you dont know what perspective or intentions kishi had when he first came up with the idea for naruto. long story short as far as the chapter goes its obvious that things were happening at a very fast pace and you dont need the author to spell everything out for you to get it. also to answer the question why the forth didnt just let kushina pull the fox back in and let it die its because the village would have been without a tailbeast which would have made the vilage a target for more attacks than the village has had. the forth did what was best for the village first, he didnt just decide that sense his wife he had to die to and thats the whole point. you have to read and understand and comprehend whats going on not just skim thru.

[RikuoAmero]

i honestly dont see any plot holes as i have been reading the manga sense it started and i look at it form a 4d perspective. everything ties together fine thats like saying for instance in batman why did the waynes go down a deep dark alley or how as bruce wayne not aged sense the 50's its because thats a part of the story it doesnt mean its a plot hole and you cant say its a plot hole because you dont know what perspective or intentions kishi had when he first came up with the idea for naruto. long story short as far as the chapter goes its obvious that things were happening at a very fast pace and you dont need the author to spell everything out for you to get it. also to answer the question why the forth didnt just let kushina pull the fox back in and let it die its because the village would have been without a tailbeast which would have made the vilage a target for more attacks than the village has had. the forth did what was best for the village first, he didnt just decide that sense his wife he had to die to and thats the whole point. you have to read and understand and comprehend whats going on not just skim thru.

you...you honestly don't see any plot holes?...at all? Even the non-aging Batman was explained away as there being several different DC Comics universes, each with a Batman from a different era of the comics.

But no plot holes in Naruto? You can't be serious. Even Lord of the Rings had a plot hole (why didn't Gandalf just use Gwaihir the Eagle to fly the ring to Mount Doom?) In that case, I was willing to let it go, as Lord of the Rings is an excellent story regardless.

But here, there is clearly plot hole after plot hole. Simply from memory I will list as many as I can.

1) Naruto not noticing he get's the memories from his shadow clones.

2) Kakashi not realising right away that Haku, if really an ANBU, should have destroyed Zabuza's body.

3) Kakashi, Jiraiya et al not bothering to get to know Naruto as he grew up, despite him being Minato's son. What happened to Kakashi's "Those who abandon their team-mates are lower than trash"?

4) Itachi massacring his clan, then it being revealed later on the clan leadership was plotting a take-over, thus removing the need for him to have killed the innocents.

5) Kakashi not electrocuting Zabuza with Chidori while he's in the Water Sphere Prison bubble thing.

6) If you notice when Orochimaru ressurects the first two Hokage, they are conscious and aware of their surroundings before he puts the mind control tags in their heads. Why didn't Sarutobi shout a warning?

7) Naruto's true identity being kept a secret - everyone knows Konohamaru is the Third's grandson, so what's the harm in letting everyone know who Naruto's folks were?

8) Tsunade being chosen as Hokage, despite her status as a run-away drunken gambler.

9) Sarutobi not bothering to have a replacement ready. What, did he think he was immortal now?

10) Gaara becoming Kazekage, despite his status as a maniac and as an inexperienced Genin.

11) We're shown two different times when Sarutobi became Hokage. I forget when the first flashback is shown, but its when hes around twelve, and the First & Second say "starting tomorrow, YOU will be Hokage". In a recent chapter, we have a flashback to where the Second sacrifices his life, so his team, including a now ADULT Sarutobi can survive, before which he says to Sarutobi, that he will be Hokage.

12) Sasuke not attacking Madara at all even when he reveals he helped Itachi slaughter their clan, even going so far as to join him. Remember Star Wars Ep 3

Ani: What have I done!

Palp: Turn to the dark side!

Ani: Stops more than likely fake tears: Okay! Where do I sign!

"made the vilage a target for more attacks than the village has had" "the forth did what was best for the village first" Saving the Fox's status as a potential weapon for the vilage...There, that's thinking like a leader, a general. That's in character for him. Now, how is not telling anyone, leaving any sort of clue or message it was Madara, in character? How was not revealing the man behind everything good for the village? The only reason he didn't is because Kishimoto somehow had to make it link with the earlier parts of the manga, where the Third and Jiraiya know basically nothing about Akatsuki, and certainly don't have a clue that Madara is still alive, thus inhibiting their ability to do anything.

Fast paced indeed. This is your time argument again. Okay lets say it ran faster. If it ran faster than normal, then picture the scene like a video file being played at 2x or 4x or 8x or whatever speed. If that were the case, all speech and action would become unintelligable and meaningless.

Then let's say it ran slower. This would only validate my argument because then there would have been more time to go around, get doctors, tell Sarutobi etc.