Gauging Interest in Forum Game Concept

[Dae314]

I can't remember exactly when we had this conversation in the Random Chat thread, but it happened some time in August I think. I wanted to see if I could design a forum game around playing skills related flash games to basically create stats. At first I was thinking about something like playing all the games, normalizing the score, then using that as your power in a "good vs evil" type of forum game, but then I really got into designing the game as a light RP and ended up with something of a very light improvised DnD rule set.

I typed a preliminary draft of it up and sent it to EO for approval, and she approved it for the forum game section (given the complexity of the game I was unsure whether it belonged in the forum game section or the RP section). Looking at the rules, I feel like I managed to marry some of the essential complexities of RP play with the lighter forum game paradigm. The product isn't too unwieldy, and I think it plays well as a forum game (although I don't know since I haven't done a pilot run anywhere). I'm thinking of attempting to run the game here, but I'd like to gauge interest in the game first and see if it's even worth trying (the game will involve me quite a bit as basically a GM).

Here is an updated draft of the rules for the game - Updated again!

And here is the excel sheet I promised, more info about this in the second page of this thread - you probably want to save this to your computer to make full use of it...

Yes, it's a long rule sheet, but most of the annoying calculations are done at character creation time and only need to be kept up while playing the game. In lieu of dice to do random events, I've opted to use random.org to do random number generation. I think it's pretty easy for players to figure out how to use. The bulk of the rule sheet is me trying to set up precedents on how the game should be played, how to interpret certain events, and how posts should be made. The rules are also trying to cover loop holes and exploits that I've thought of to prevent unfair play. Finally, toward the end of the rules is all the stuff related to the shop which really is there more as a reference than as a set of rules to follow.

If there's enough interest in the game I'll consider putting an official game thread up in the forum game section. Additionally, if someone else really likes the concept and can guarantee better availability than me as a thread master (I usually check this forum once a day at least), I'd be happy to send them a link to a (rather less refined) TM guide that I typed up basically as documentation for myself. If you want to lead the game and can do a better job than I can, there's no reason why I should stop you. However, I don't want the TM guide floating around publicly (which is why I'll only give out the guide to those who ask individually) since I feel like the TM should have some secrets while running the game or it's not fun ^^;

For the record, I've never played or seen a DnD game played in my life, so if you have suggestions to streamline the rules and make the game easier to play, I'd love to hear that too.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Dae314

[Hawkester]

I willing to try this game, since I basically live in the games section.

Also the link is password protected so we can't see the rule sheet.

[† Emotional Outlet]

What if cracking the password is part of the game????

WHAT IF THO

But yeah, no, I'd like to play. It sounded cool from what I read last time.

[Dae314]

Wups. Linked to the wrong file . That was the TM sheets which I pw protected because I assume you can find some way to see the files I've uploaded on to MF through looking at the unpassworded player sheets which would give you access to the TM sheets. Anyway, link's fixed now. If you're interested in TMing the game, I'll pm you the (well link again I guess and...) passsword.

/>http://www.mediafire.com/view/?9y84iam9qt79bzd

Edited October 21, 2012 by Dae314

[zx0]

Wow it looks like you have put a lot of thought and effort into this. It is something I would like to try.

One note, you should simplify your calculations, for example:

strength = (200 * game_score) / 300

this should be simplified to (2 * game_score) / 3

Speed is one which could be simplified a lot to just game_score / 1000

[Dae314]

When you actually play the game, you may simplify your calculations if you want. Heck, if you know how, you could write a quick python (or other language) script to take your game score and calculate your value from it; that's probably what I will do ^^. However, I left those equations unspimplified in the player manual for a reason:

When you look at the raw, unsimplified equations, you can see how I'm normalizing all the scores to fit a 0-200 value scale. The denominator of all those equations is the maximum game scores that I made up for the game scores based on where I perceived my own scores to be. One of the problems I ran into with normalizing the game scores was that I didn't know what the max score for most of the games was. Especially since this is still in the planning stage, if you think the max game score is too high or too low, now's the time to voice your opinion.

You may notice I set the max score for the IQ test at 130 not 200 also. This is also done purposely since I don't think anyone would really score a 200 on the IQ test . In this case, if you get above a 130 on the IQ test you simply get a higher than 200 base stat.

Also, I noticed I forgot to mention an important rule (haha silly me). You may not trade EXP with other players (the rules already prohibit trading items and spells). This will be put into the final player sheet.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Dae314

[Hawkester]

Looking more interesting by the moment

[Dae314]

So I made a few changes to the rules so far (none of them based on any feedback since I haven't gotten any xD). Like I mentioned above, I'm restricting trade of EXP, Items, and Spells. I've also added a checksum to the items that I give out. The checksum will be used when players are accused/suspected of cheating. The checksum is not a foolproof method of ensuring shop purchase authencity, but it will at least be a deterant for people who are less technically savvy (aka not smart enough to figure out what checksum I'm using and what string I'm checksuming). This is a good example of why I don't want the TM papers floating around for everyone to see (the current TM papers don't have the checksum info yet, but the edited version I have does include some documentation for it).

I'm playing with the idea of adding a leveling system into the game, but I'd like feedback about it. The way the system will work if I implement it is that players would buy levelups from the shop. Instead of having a table of levelup costs, I would have a simple formula which takes the player's current level and outputs the EXP needed to purchase the next level. Levels would basically give the player free points to add into whatever base attributes they want (the points would be added permanently since I can't think of a good way to keep track of where all your levelup points go). Here's the pros and cons of this system:

+ The game would be more fun since you're not only playing to gather equips, but you're now also playing to level up your character.

+ More powerful characters will be possible since base attributes will slowly be rising whereas the current scheme only allows modifiers (items) to raise stats.

+ With levels, I can modify some of the equations (maybe instead of having to calculate % difference in total stats, you can calculate EXP bonus off level) to make them easier. I can also add layers to the gameplay like restricting item/spell tiers to certain level minimums.

- Even more calculations to do

- This could possibly exclude new players from participating in an on going game even more than they are now. Even as the game is right now, new players will have a hard time integrating into a game that's been going on for a while (it'll be hard, but I think they can integrate). I'd need to put in ANOTHER set of rules governing the attacking of newbie players

- Right now, I've kinda balanced out the EXP gain and item shop prices, if I add leveling to the mix, the economy might get out of wack.

Do you think a level system would be good to implement, or would it take too many rules and regulation changes to accomplish? A leveling system would also increase the "weight" of the game (as in how easy it is to just make a post in the thread to play) and possibly push players away due to the increased complexity.

[Hawkester]

Personally I don't mind a level up system though if it was implemented then you could probably put in a rule saying like you can only attack players 10 levels above or below you etc. This could stop high-leveled players from attacking newbies.

Also for anyone reading this, Welcome to the tl;dr thread

[zx0]

I think levelling would be good. Having powerful items already creates a barrier to entry, so I don't think the addition of levelling would scare people off any more.

Maybe we could run the game for a certain time limit then reset, giving new comers the chance to start on a level playing field.

[Hawkester]

Maybe we could run the game for a certain time limit then reset, giving new comers the chance to start on a level playing field.

Something about that would frustrate me I reckon.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Hawkester

[zx0]

Yeah I guess it would, you would feel no incentive to continue playing after the reset.

[Hawkester]

Just like a reset in every other game, thats why I suggested that you can only attack other players within the range of your level.

[zx0]

But if you can only attack the person who posted above you then a newcomer might not be able to play anyway if everyone playing is already over level 10.

Similarly if there are only a few players around your level you may have to wait ages until one of them gets a chance to post before you can post.

One solution would be some sort of normalisation whereby if the difference in levels is +-10 then mod stats of the attacker to limit them to the level of the defender. A simple version would be:

normalised stat = current stat * defenders level / your level

eg.

level 20 person has posted last, you are level 51.

current attack = 178

normalised stat for attacking lvl 20 player = 178*20/51 = 69

[Hawkester]

So something similar to the level limiting system in Guild Wars 2 when you enter an area that is a couple of levels below yours?

That could work too.

Bah, curse it. Now we're just making this more complicated than it already is, lol

Edited October 23, 2012 by Hawkester

[† Emotional Outlet]

The normalisation isn't terribly complicated, and nothing I've seen so far looks out of reach. You'd definitely want a crib sheet like a lot of board games offer you, especially complicated ones that involve multiple phases in a single turn (see Pandemic, Arkham Horror), but it's not inaccessible.

[† Mute point]

Is strength meant to be a low score? The maximum score for that game seems to be around 30 based on maximum human reaction time, which, given the calculations set would put you at a 20. Unless you're supposed to take your total average MS and plug it into the calculations, in which case it would make no sense, because the slower players would have a higher strength score.

To contrast, with a high score of 145 in the IQ test, I would have an intelligence score of 223. If these values are meant to be this way, I feel confident in stating that no one would ever bother with a physical attack.

[† Emotional Outlet]

Did you play the whole game? I ended up with a total score of 165.85, putting my calculated strength at 110.

[Dae314]

@Mute, you need to play the entire game (at least I'm pretty sure that's the problem)

My score when I just tried it came out to 187.

Also, I suppose 130 does make the IQ score go kinda out of wack (like a 100 score gets you 154 stat), so I'll probably up that to like 180 or so.

For the multitask game (Dex game) I should probably also mention that you need to play standard mode. Also, I might drop the max score for this one down to 130 or 120.

I might also drop the Speed and Luck game scores down a bit to even things out with the IQ test more.

Also, I think I'm going to make an excel sheet for the game and make that available to players so they can just fill in the information and it will calculate stuff like hit % and EXP bonus. I feel like people will be more comfortable using something like that than if I made a script...

I don't remember if I mentioned above or not, but I'm also open to other game suggestions for the stats. I don't mind putting in more than one game choice per stat since some people might perform better in some games.

----edit----

One more thing I thought of while I was gone. Instead of bumbling around trying to balance the attribute equations based on only my scores, can you all who are interested play each attribute game *1 or 2 times* (the IQ test is excluded from this) and report to me the highest scores you received? Don't try to artificially inflate your score by playing multiple times to get a higher score. I'm going to use the data to calculate around where the average should be so that I can set up the initial stats to average at about 90-110 for most of the games. That said, also don't artificially deflate your scores so that the equations become unbalanced.

Also, I thought of a good way to provide newbie protection without stagnating the game: If you kill someone whose stats are significantly lower than yours, you do not take their EXP, and they do not lose any EXP (or maybe they only lose 10% or something). This way newbies can quickly train themselves up to a competitive level since they'll be able to basically freely attack anyone in the arena and gain massive EXP bonuses for being under powered. Once they're out of the significantly under powered state, they can join in at about the same level as everyone else (they will still be slightly weaker but not unable to compete). Stronger players will still have incentive to attack since 10 EXP is rewarded for a hit regardless of stat differences, but the system will push stronger attackers to attack stronger people so that they get more of a bonus compared to attacking a newbie.

Also in the same vein of thought, if someone is killed (assuming no newbie protection) perhaps something less than 100% of their EXP should be taken. If you're constantly being reset to 0 EXP, the game isn't that fun.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Dae314

[zx0]

strength - 160.7, 165.68

dexterity - 36, 61 Though I think this is one I could do a bit better at with practice

speed - 155000, 144000

luck - 1287, 1574

Edit: updated scores

Edited October 24, 2012 by zx0