Religion

[† LimitLess]

Man Tanis you're into some serious science shit.

 

An atheist has never strapped a bomb to their check or lead a 'holy war'.

 

 

First off all, those are just pawns who follow what his leader says, which most of the time, they have a personal agenda besides doing things for God. In fact they don't give a shit about God, they just want something else and those who do believe in God are forced by their leaders to believe that it's some kind of holy war.

 

 

 

The thing is...

Religion makes it easier to justify things like  raping a 9 year old girl

How?

 

 

What the fuck do 'aliens' have to do with evolution?

I never said aliens had anything to do with evolution. I said that because of evolution, some scientists believe that those days(long, long ago) when these ancient buildings seemed impossible to build because they feel that humans were still evolving to become intelligent, so they make up stories that aliens either did it or gave humans certain tools to do it.

 

 

You lack any basic understand of evolution.

 

Then what is your understanding

 

 

 

 

I do believe in God, the fact the we are still alive today proves that.

Nope, we are still alive because we know how to survive, not because of this god that uses magic but cannot prove that he exists.

 

How did the earth which has all the basic necessities we need to survive, and the sun which we need as well come then? The big bang, were the sun is not to close or to far from the earth. Or something else science will try to explain that makes no sense but because they are saying it, it must be true.

 

 

The thing is that Atheist leaders are scientist, even if they are wrong, to them they are always right.

That's a fact.

 

 

I'm not a religious person but I believe in God, that's my own belief. How is scientist able to prove that God doesn't exist.

In fact, they know more about outer space then they do about what is in our ocean.

 

Edited June 5, 2014 by LimitLess

[RabbitBones]

Regarding the Egyptians: it's believed that they hadn't progressed far enough in a... lacking the word here... I'll say "technological sense" and let someone correct me. They simply shouldn't have had the machinery, knowledge, or resources to construct that kind of architecture. That's not the same as biological evolution and isn't about their mental capacity/potential. Instead, it's about the concept that ideas evolve as well... based on societal needs and developments.  

 

The fact that modern architects/engineers cannot produce the same results is puzzling no matter what you believe. 

Some people believe that it was achievable only because of the immense amount of slave labor available to them. 

 

Of course, it could also have been due to cultural and environmental differences. We're currently spoiled by technology. Maybe what they achieved could only be done through the knowledge they did have... passed down over the years in their own culture. They lived and adapted to that environment. I'm sure they had an understanding of things we don't even think to ponder. 

 

And honestly, people mention aliens as a joke sometimes, but the possibility of intelligent life outside of planet Earth is not only possible, it seems rather probable. This is a vast universe that we haven't even begun to explore. 

 

Our sun isn't the only giant star, you know. Not even the only one with planets revolving around it. 

Things happen in nature because proper conditions were met. There's nothing saying it couldn't have happened multiple times in multiple galaxies. 

I'm not sure scientists know more about space than what's in the ocean when you compare the size of the two. It's certainly of more interest to them, however.
 

Also. You're right. People need to change. But Tanis is also right. Religion is a huge trigger. People take their beliefs much too far and, in doing so, act out in heinous ways. Religion can become a tool to manipulate people. People will use it to justify nearly anything. What's written in your book becomes law to enforce on people in society who may not agree with you... for reasons that have no basis in present day reality. And SO many people pick and choose what does and does not apply to them. It's all for the sake of their own convenience.

 

You also have to keep in mind that when I say "religion" it doesn't have to be one of the big ones... it just has to have a cult following. Belief is a powerful thing. Fear is a powerful thing. Desperation. The need for connection. The need for purpose. All human weaknesses, it's true... but religion is what we as a species like to fall back on.

You can't really penalize people for not knowing the "truth" or for thinking they do unless you also penalize yourself. Believers in god aren't any more knowledgeable about the universe than non-believers. And if you ignore what actually has been discovered by science, then you're choosing to keep yourself in the dark. But truthfully, we're all pretty ignorant. There's no helping or escaping that. 

[Gwapogi]

 

 

I do believe in God, the fact the we are still alive today proves that.

Nope, we are still alive because we know how to survive, not because of this god that uses magic but cannot prove that he exists.

 

How did the earth which has all the basic necessities we need to survive, and the sun which we need as well come then? The big bang, were the sun is not to close or to far from the earth. Or something else science will try to explain that makes no sense but because they are saying it, it must be true.

 

 

Yes, by chance, coincidence, that's all ever is. Nothing is destined, nothing is planned. We are so lucky t because the earth is not too far or too near from the sun.

 

The earth has NO basic necessities, it only has other life forms like plants and animals, and other raw materials that we, PEOPLE, turned into necessities. We used what's around us as food and tools. 

Everything Science explains makes sense because they had various experiments and observations before saying something.

 

In fact, they know more about outer space then they do about what is in our ocean.

 

So you're saying that it's possible that "god" is a merman or something?

Edited June 5, 2014 by Gwapogi

[† LimitLess]

 

Yes, by chance, coincidence, that's all ever is. Nothing is destined, nothing is planned

 

 

Doesn't that sound illogical. If everything is based on fact, then why the hell would intelligent people say that we are all merely a coincidence.

They just saying that so they don't have to believe in God, and it's people like you who make these idiots smart.

 

 

 

In fact, they know more about outer space then they do about what is in our ocean.

 

So you're saying that it's possible that "god" is a merman or something?

 

 

Uh no, I'm saying that scientists don't know everything, they still haven't explored or even know about what's in the ocean.

That's why I made the statement above by saying " How is scientist able to prove that God doesn't exist". If they don't even know certain things about our own planet.

 

 

If you think you're logical in your thinking, you'd understand that nothing comes by chance. Internet, Houses and electricity, did that come by chance or were they made by someone.

[† LimitLess]

 

 And SO many people pick and choose what does and does not apply to them. It's all for the sake of their own convenience.

You're right, thats the point I'm trying to make. The muslims so-called quaran(not sure how you spell it) didn't tell them to blow up people and cities.

 

It's people who twist what one thing says with their own ideals or ways.

[Gwapogi]

 

 

If you think you're logical in your thinking, you'd understand that nothing comes by chance. Internet, Houses and electricity, did that come by chance or were they made by someone.

 

You obviously didn't get my point. I'll just waste my energy typing a long post..

Edited June 5, 2014 by Gwapogi

[† LimitLess]

Yeah, and you obviously didn't get my point either.

[Gwapogi]

I did get your point, the point which obviously implies that you didn't get mine.

[RabbitBones]

Nature and man-made crap are two different things. It's only your opinion that believing in a "plan" is the logical thought process. Your opinion isn't any more a fact than anyone else's. I, personally, don't argue that there can't be supernatural elements in this universe. I just don't put any stock in religious doctrine.

 

It's people who twist what one thing says with their own ideals or ways.

They do, of course. As I said. It can partially be attributed to human weakness/error. But it still stems from their desire to be ruled and guided. Their desire to surpass. Find peace. Find paradise. Whichever. But without the book, they'd have no excuse to lash out at people who are different. Without the book, they'd have no reason to compare their religious views with any other. Without the book, it could never be burned - igniting war and rebellion. It'd be much harder to get away with human atrocities without religion there, backing it up. This is particularly true of organized religion. 

Take the U.S. as an example. Christian country. 
Women get treated like breeding stock. People of differing sexualities get harassed. Tortured. Killed. On a NATIONAL level... because of a BOOK. No one would be able to say "the existence of this person goes against my beliefs and therefore they deserve less human rights"
Yes, people are horrible creatures. I will never argue that. But religion aids them in it. The gun's not at fault, so to speak. Guns are designed to injure and kill. Religion is designed to provide meaning, explanation and in many cases... a scapegoat. It's a human invention with the same human weaknesses and as such can be a problem.

Would abolishing religion end war? No. People are ruled by pride and greed. But it definitely gives them an extra reason they don't need. And it is a BIG reason. A dominating one in all human conflict. 
 

[Princess]

And SO many people pick and choose what does and does not apply to them. It's all for the sake of their own convenience.

You're right, thats the point I'm trying to make. The muslims so-called quaran(not sure how you spell it) didn't tell them to blow up people and cities.

 

It's people who twist what one thing says with their own ideals or ways.

I agree with you here, and the spelling is 'Quran'

[† LimitLess]

Thanx for clearing that up, it was bugging me how to spell it.

[Princess]

Thanx for clearing that up, it was bugging me how to spell it.

It's ok

[lemmingllama]

 

I'm against ANYTHING that is against facts.

 

Evolution is a much a theory a gravity.

Would you be willing to jump off of a tall building to test it out?

 

An atheist has never strapped a bomb to their check or lead a 'holy war'.

 

What the fuck do 'aliens' have to do with evolution?

 

Evolution isn't fact. It is a theory, with supporting facts to buffer it. One of the largest reasons why we believe that humans evolved are the bones of previous homonid generations. We also assume that those are our ancestors by following Ockham's Razor, but look at Lucy. She was the most complete skeleton found, and later they discovered that it is impossible for her to be in our evolutionary chain. Evolution isn't proven yet, it is just one of the many theories out there. This is why religion should be a philosophical debate, with empirical facts used to make or counter points that other factions make.

 

Atheists do strap on bombs. Atheists also lead parades and protests against religion. Atheism is also an official religion now, with it's own church and weekly meeting times. It's just a system of belief, and now that it is organized then it is just as bad as all other religions. (i'm not saying that any religion is bad, I'm agnostic so I think that its best to keep an open mind until it is verified to be impossible. Hence I can combine anything that I have reasonable belief for into my belief theories.)

 

Aliens could do with evolution. Some of the species on Earth could have originally been alien and adapted to earth, thus changing our own evolution. We could be aliens. The aliens mind controlled the primates to teach them fire. Again, can't be proven, but with Ockham's Razor then we can move past this point.

 

And, please.

Seriously, please.

Before you come back with 'cuz I say so' ignorance...

 

READ A SCIENCE BOOK!

 

Maybe if you open up your mind to facts, you'll evolve into something other than a parrot for your religious leaders.

 

Science isn't the answer to everything. Science gives us facts, but those facts can't replace what we believe. It can disprove things, but has science found something that disproves the existence of a god? So far, not at all. Religion and science can work hand in hand, and many scientists do believe in religion and do their work to try to validate their beliefs.

 

Also I know that you are attacking holy books and such with this statement. They are a series of stories, not truths, that are designed to teach lessons to people. They are designed to give an eithical moral structure to people and make them believe that their life has purpose. You don't have to believe in Jesus to do good things, but by reading his stories you realize that doing good is a good thing to do, then I don't see a real issue. (I personally don't like people who take it word for word, religions have been looking into the meanings behind the stories for millennia so people should attempt it a bit too)

 

 

Yes, by chance, coincidence, that's all ever is. Nothing is destined, nothing is planned. We are so lucky t because the earth is not too far or too near from the sun.

 

The earth has NO basic necessities, it only has other life forms like plants and animals, and other raw materials that we, PEOPLE, turned into necessities. We used what's around us as food and tools. 

Everything Science explains makes sense because they had various experiments and observations before saying something.

 

In fact, they know more about outer space then they do about what is in our ocean.

 

So you're saying that it's possible that "god" is a merman or something?

 

Actually, its also impossible to determine if our lives are predetermined or if we are free to do as we please. Also, it doesn't matter. Even if everything were predetermined, we would still do the exact same things as if we had free choice and just happened to make those decisions.

 

Also there are necessities for everything on Earth. Like the fact that everything needs the Sun, otherwise the world freezes over and we lose our orbit, thus causing the Earth to swing away to find a new gravitational source.

 

Science also never explained why we came to be. They hypothesized, and with the help of fossilized remains then they coulld attempt to map the progression of humanity. However, it is still a theory, since they have not found irrefutable proof that shows exactly how evolution works and exactly how humans evolved to become what we are today.

 

 

 

TL;DR   Science isn't a religion. Science helps us think things through, and gives us reasonably believable theories. As such, religious debates should focus on philosophy, rather than the "Science says that the space daddy doesn't exist since lighting bunnies on fire causes the bunnies to adapt into flame retardant bunnies"

[† LimitLess]

Finally someone has some common sense, couldn't have said it better myself

 

Alright I don't need to say more.

Edited June 5, 2014 by LimitLess

[† LimitLess]

And, please.

Seriously, please.

Before you come back with 'cuz I say so' ignorance...

 

READ A SCIENCE FICTION BOOK!

 

Edited June 5, 2014 by LimitLess

[TRUNKSvsCELL]

Out of all of this I like to think that EVERYONE is wrong and maybe RIGHT at the same time in different aspects of what they believe. With my open mind I'd like to believe that we CAN'T know the truth. We can only speculate, but to me evolution is FAR from anything I'd like to believe. As an optimist I believe we are created differently and uniquely to the point the goes in the exact opposite direction of evolution because none of this we see in front of us is an accident. LimitLess is kinda going along what I'm saying here. We believe what we do as closest to how we feel about ourselves in correlation with the rest of the universe.

Edited June 5, 2014 by TRUNKSvsCELL

[theNexus]

Christianity.... No Other Labels.

 

I Don't believe in Any faith that kills in the name of GOD.

My God says "Thu shalt Not Kill" & "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

 

I believe that the fact that the world hates Christianity shows that Satan only fears the one true

GOD.

 

E.G. Syria and Iraq Christians being killed at the moment.  In china Christians are gunned down

in their homes.

Australia is trying to ban Religious Education from schools.

 

The Muslim nation are invading other countries and preaching hate towards Christianity.

 

The list goes on and on...

 

My God said that every human being has the right to chose their own beliefs. It does not mean

Christians hate anyone for what they believe. My God tell us to "Love thy neighbor" your neighbor

is all humanity.

 

A true christian will give you the opportunity to hear the word of God, but they should never BIBLE BASH you.

If you say you don't want to know about our beliefs, they need to respect that.

 

 

The Fact is Christians are becoming the most hated group in the world. The bible said this would happen and it

is. Why is it a group that preach love from God. Love for thy neighbor and respects others choice to believe what

they will is becoming one of the most hated groups in the world.

 

Darkness hates the Light!

 

P.S. My God also said we are all sinners. Who than can Judge another? Only god can Judge.

Edited August 12, 2014 by theNexus

[Kouhai]

Damn it, I seriously missed out on a fun thread while this was alive.

I'm an ashiest. That's not to say I believe God categorically does NOT exist, but rather I believe the chances of him not existing far out scale the opposite. Erm. I can't remember who said this but "The absence of proof is not the proof of absence". Now this works both ways.

Just because there is no proof (like, legit 100% proof) that God does not exist, this does not therefor prove God's existence. Essentially it goes to a 0. Again, for the opposite, just because there's no proof that God does exist, does not prove that he doesn't.

Some of the above quote irked me, so I'll cut it up into pieces.

 

 

I Don't believe in Any faith that kills in the name of GOD.

Every Religion more or less has killed in the name of God. You said you're Christian? They've killed in the name of God too! Anyway, I won't say that's the religion's fault. Or rather, human's are able to use religion as a tool to do what they want. But I just want to say almost any faith has killed for their beliefs.
 

The bible said this would happen and it is

This is what irks me the most. I don't understand how people can take the bible so literally, as if it were in fact written by God himself.

Humans wrote the bible. And it's not like they heard the words of God and then wrote the words down straight away. They're writing based off of stories, based off of other stories, etc. etc. Again, I'm not going to say it's categorically wrong, I don't know if it's true or not. That being said, even if it was based off of true events, I doubt the current bible is anywhere close to said event. (I mean seriously, have you tried playing Chinese Whispers? Things get distorted!)
 

 

A true christian will give you the opportunity to hear the word of God, but they should never BIBLE BASH you.

If you say you don't want to know about our beliefs, they need to respect that.

This is a legit attitude, and I wish more people had this. That being said, I still believe that it's wrong.
You shouldn't even need to give anyone any opportunity, they should go for it themselves. But yeah, that's minor stuff.

There is more I want to say, but I don't want to rant too much on my own.

I'm trying to not sound like a jerk here, haha. Let me know if you disagree with anything I said. :x

 

[TRUNKSvsCELL]

Here's the base of my philosophy:

 

I have a yin and yang philosophical look on life. That's why when you preach black or white concepts at me I just scoff at them. Whether I vocally state it as much as christians do, GOD has full hands in my future. His plan for me is my plan. Yes, I am independent and take charge and can be a little vain, but he forged the future for me as I choose it. He did invent free will after all. I give HIM all credit for the way I am today. I mean he created the people in my life who mean the most to me and inspire me. I think the literal philosophy that christians have that GOD is the main thing is an incomplete thought. He might be a jealous God but he is not as jealous as you may think. He does allow things or people to have a sub lordship. As long as you don't think they are ULTIMATE deities more powerful then or equal to GOD himself. After all the first type of government where monarchies that God blessed and it was an acceptable practice to worship them, it's the form of worship that you give that can be wrong. As I just stated. So my obsession with Gaga is not at this level. Trust me I'd have to be religious for that to be possible. Also the subject of sin. I believe sin is based on an individual level that is between you and God not others, and by that I mean I do not believe in moral absolutes. We learn through out life what we can and not do but don't tell others they can't do those things because you don't know if it's right or wrong for them. Being gay is never a sin because it wasn't till in recent days with newer translations that gay was even clearly mentioned and if you look at the context much closer you will see that it was talking about other wrong doings of those people in that era of time. Also on the issue of some of the other 'sexual sins', they where part of list of taboo laws of the time that where destroyed when Jesus went to the cross for our sins so we may not be in bondage by them meaning that we could gain control over our dark sides and put them away so we may be pure. The ONLY ones who go to hell are those who become slave to there own darkness. I BELIEVE GOD IS THE ULTIMATE LIFE FORM OF THE UNIVERSE AND I BELIEVE HE BLESSES ME EVERY DAY THROUGH GOOD TIMES AND BAD TIMES. I THANK HIM FOR THE WONDERFUL LIFE HE HAS GIVEN ME AND FOR ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MADE SUCH A MARK IN ME. I LOVE GOD WITH ME WHOLE HEART. JUDGE ME AS HARSHLY AS YOU CHOOSE BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW ME ON THE INSIDE LIKE GOD AND MYSELF DO.

Edited August 20, 2014 by TRUNKSvsCELL

[theNexus]

Kouhai: You need to actually learn about the bible before you can make such a bold statement that it was like the aboriginal story telling....

The bible was written by the prophets who put the word to paper (scrolls) The bible has been translated from the original texts from these scrolls. Some of the Bible was

INSPIRED by God and other parts are basically Historical accounts of what happened. People can say the bible is garbage if they like, but historically it's correct and accurate.

 

People need to remember when reading the bible that it was written over 2000years ago. Language and culture was much different then. So to fully Understand the bible you

need to first understand the language and culture of that time. It is a real shame that it was not updated with the language and culture of each era. In 2 weeks I'm going to bible

college specifically to learn the language and culture from that era as best we know it.

 

Take Revelations in the bible for instance. It is full of metaphors. It's very confusing, but 2000 years ago it made perfect sense to the people  because of their language and culture.

when the bible speaks of seven hills and the head of the best and things like that, it talks of cities, nations and the bodies that govern them.

 

TRUNKSvsCELL:

Lev 18:22 “ ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Lev 20:13 “ ‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.

 

The passage also speaks on Incest and Bestiality. The lord says it's wrong and sin.

 

Ro 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

Ro 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 

 

Having said that, although the bible does not say "Hate the sin, not the sinner" he teaches it throughout the bible.

God himself hates Sin, but he loves each and everyone of his people. Jesus hates sin, but showed love towards sinners.

 

I have a few Gay friends. They are good people. I care for them very much even though they know I'm against homosexuality.

Edited August 21, 2014 by theNexus