Religion

[Tanis]

@theNexus:

Who gets to decide which stories in the bible are metaphors and which are not?

What gives YOU the right to decide this?

[Kouhai]

Kouhai: You need to actually learn about the bible before you can make such a bold statement that it was like the aboriginal story telling....

The bible was written by the prophets who put the world to paper (scrolls) The bible has been translated from the original texts from these scrolls. Some of the Bible was

INSPIRED by God and other parts are basically Historical accounts of what happened. People can say the bible is garbage if they like, but historically it's correct and accurate.

 

People need to remember when reading the bible that it was written over 2000years ago. Language and culture was much different then. So to fully Understand the bible you

need to first understand the language and culture of that time. It is a real shame that it was not updated with the language and culture of each era. In 2 weeks I'm going to bible

college specifically to learn the language and culture from that era as best we know it.

 

Take Revelations in the bible for instance. It is full of metaphors. It's very confusing, but 2000 years ago it made perfect sense to the people  because of their language and culture.

when the bible speaks of seven hills and the head of the best and things like that, it talks of cities, nations and the bodies that govern them.

Sorry, I don't have the time to give a propper reply right now, I'm getting ready to go.

I'll look into the bible more, I was pretty sure it a lot of it was based off of the apostles, or the apostles followers, and parts weren't written until AD. Be memory the revelations you talk about was written ~90AD, but that's going by memory. I'll have to look into it.

What I was trying to say was, even if they are bassed off of historically correct events, almost 100 years later things will get lost. What people say, what people do. Memories get embelished, etc. And it's not even written in english which most common bibles are now day. So it had to go through translation too. And before people had to hand write the bible. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it wasn't until 1500s that there became a 'standardized' bible which was the same word for word. It's little things like this which I feel deter away from the legitimacy of the bible. (That, it's actual content, but that's besides the point).

I might be mistaken, it's been a long while since I read the bible myself, even longer since I studied it. As I said, I'll do more research and give a propper reply soon.

[† Apollo]

 

Evolution isn't fact. It is a theory, with supporting facts to buffer it. One of the largest reasons why we believe that humans evolved are the bones of previous homonid generations. We also assume that those are our ancestors by following Ockham's Razor, but look at Lucy. She was the most complete skeleton found, and later they discovered that it is impossible for her to be in our evolutionary chain. Evolution isn't proven yet, it is just one of the many theories out there. This is why religion should be a philosophical debate, with empirical facts used to make or counter points that other factions make.

Evolution itself is not a theory. Evolution is a fact. There's really no debate about it. It is constantly observed in nature. "The theory of evolution" is actually a misnomer when you leave out "by natural selection". Natural selection is just one of the theories used to explain evolution. So evolution is not debatable, but the exact mechanism in which evolution occured is debabtable.

 

Evolution is just the gradual changes in the characteristics of populations over many many many generations. We know for sure that evolution is a thing. That's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. It's just, no one knows for sure how or why.

 

You just have to understand the difference between a scientific fact and a scientific theory. A scientific fact is just something that has been observed. It is what it is. It happened. It's totally objective. A theory, however, is intended to explain something. So changes over time, also known as evolution, has been observed time and time again. That's a fact. Natural selection is a theory intended to explain how evolution works. It's a proposed mechanism in which evolution occurred. A mechanism with tons of supporting evidence.

 

But even a scientific theory should not be dismissed as "just a theory" because there is a major difference between the word "theory" used in regular life (speculation, shot in the dark, etc.), and the actual term "scientific theory" which holds a lot more weight. In science, a theory is not just a guess. It's a way to explain a certain phenomenon and has evidence backing it up. It is made of facts.

 

A scientific theory can never become a fact. They are just two different things with two different uses. Theories are there to explain the fact.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Apollo

[theNexus]

@theNexus: Who gets to decide which stories in the bible are metaphors and which are not? What gives YOU the right to decide this?

 

Go back and read what I said... It is based on the way people spoke 2000years ago. Not the way we do now...

 

I was thinking about this. The Dictionary and the way people speak today is way different to how it was 50 years ago.

The dictionary actually incorporates slang and txt talk now. In the days of Shake sphere it was real old English. before that

was hieroglyphs and so on.

 

It's all the same thing really.. When things are described with creatures and beasts and so on, it was written for the people of the

time to understand them. The bible is for all time, but it had to be written in the language and understanding of the time.

 

I thought I made the pretty clear in that last post. It was their way of talking. Not ours today!

[Tanis]

 

@theNexus: Who gets to decide which stories in the bible are metaphors and which are not? What gives YOU the right to decide this?

 

Go back and read what I said... It is based on the way people spoke 2000years ago. Not the way we do now...

 

I was thinking about this. The Dictionary and the way people speak today is way different to how it was 50 years ago.

The dictionary actually incorporates slang and txt talk now. In the days of Shake sphere it was real old English. before that

was hieroglyphs and so on.

 

It's all the same thing really.. When things are described with creatures and beasts and so on, it was written for the people of the

time to understand them. The bible is for all time, but it had to be written in the language and understanding of the time.

 

I thought I made the pretty clear in that last post. It was their way of talking. Not ours today!

 

So...the part about the talking snake, and making a rapist marry his victim.

Just a translation issue?

[theNexus]

 

 

@theNexus: Who gets to decide which stories in the bible are metaphors and which are not? What gives YOU the right to decide this?

 

Go back and read what I said... It is based on the way people spoke 2000years ago. Not the way we do now...

 

I was thinking about this. The Dictionary and the way people speak today is way different to how it was 50 years ago.

The dictionary actually incorporates slang and txt talk now. In the days of Shake sphere it was real old English. before that

was hieroglyphs and so on.

 

It's all the same thing really.. When things are described with creatures and beasts and so on, it was written for the people of the

time to understand them. The bible is for all time, but it had to be written in the language and understanding of the time.

 

I thought I made the pretty clear in that last post. It was their way of talking. Not ours today!

 

So...the part about the talking snake, and making a rapist marry his victim.

Just a translation issue?

 

 

 

Lol you are talking nonsense now..

 

Mary was never Raped! Satan did not put a child in her. God did and he spoke it into being. God did not come down and rape a 15yo girl.

Just as God said "Let there Be" and there was. It was also with a child.

No Satan was not literally a snake.

The symbol of a serpent or snake played important roles in religious and cultural life of ancient Egypt, Canaan, Mesopotamia and Greece. The serpent was a symbol of evil

or in this case Satan.

 

Like I said they spoke in metaphors or symbols.

Edited August 21, 2014 by theNexus

[Tanis]

 

 

 

@theNexus: Who gets to decide which stories in the bible are metaphors and which are not? What gives YOU the right to decide this?

 

Go back and read what I said... It is based on the way people spoke 2000years ago. Not the way we do now...

 

I was thinking about this. The Dictionary and the way people speak today is way different to how it was 50 years ago.

The dictionary actually incorporates slang and txt talk now. In the days of Shake sphere it was real old English. before that

was hieroglyphs and so on.

 

It's all the same thing really.. When things are described with creatures and beasts and so on, it was written for the people of the

time to understand them. The bible is for all time, but it had to be written in the language and understanding of the time.

 

I thought I made the pretty clear in that last post. It was their way of talking. Not ours today!

 

So...the part about the talking snake, and making a rapist marry his victim.

Just a translation issue?

 

 

 

Lol you are talking nonsense now..

 

Mary was never Raped! Satan did not put a child in her. God did and he spoke it into being. God did not come down and rape a 15yo girl.

Just as God said "Let there Be" and there was. It was also with a child.

No Satan was not literally a snake.

The symbol of a serpent or snake played important roles in religious and cultural life of ancient Egypt, Canaan, Mesopotamia and Greece. The serpent was a symbol of evil

or in this case Satan.

 

Like I said they spoke in metaphors or symbols.

 

(22:28) "If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;"

(22:29) "Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife

-Deuteronomy 22:28-29

 

But, there's a way out!

(22:13) "If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her."

(22:14) "And say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:"

(22:15) "Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:"

(22:16-17) "And ... say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity."

(22:20) "But if ... the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel,"

(22:21) "Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die."

-Deuteronomy 22:13-21

 

 

Rape a girl.

Have to marry her.

Get 'bored' of her.

Then have her stonned to death!

 

 

 

 

So...who decides what's LITTERAL and what's METAPHORICAL?

Unless it say, out right, in the bible that something is a metaphore, then it isn't.

[theNexus]

Tanis pay Attention:

 

Jn 8:3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group
Jn 8:4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.
Jn 8:5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”
Jn 8:6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.
Jn 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Jn 8:8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
Jn 8:9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.
Jn 8:10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
Jn 8:11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

[Tanis]

Tanis pay Attention:

 

Jn 8:3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group

Jn 8:4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.

Jn 8:5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”

Jn 8:6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.

Jn 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Jn 8:8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

Jn 8:9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.

Jn 8:10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

Jn 8:11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

Once again the bible strikes with its own 'plot holes'.

 

 “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished.  Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”  (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

 

 

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." 

(Luke 16:17 NAB)

 

 

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."

(Matthew 5:17 NAB)

 

 

Whoever curses father or mother shall die"  (Mark 7:10 NAB)

 

5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 5:27-5:30

 

 

 

So...which is it?

At least Islam was smart enough to BUILD IN a mechanic to their books.

This is via Naskh/abrogation.

[TRUNKSvsCELL]

The #1 reason you can't take it 100% to heart is that is was written by man. Regardless of any part of it that may or may not be true makes it clear to us that translations have small holes or big ones that you can't honestly prove aren't there. Unless you where there then sit down. LOL I think it does hold some good lessons but I do not believe it should be taken too seriously.

[theNexus]

Tanis: read my reply in the abortion topic. It is basically the same here.

 

the difference between the old and the new. Jesus who is the living sacrifice for all mankinds

sins. His blood washes us and the Lord God sees Jesus in us rather an the Sin he saw before

Jesus stood in our place and broke the chains of sin over our lives.

[† LimitLess]

Tanis, it is clear of your hatred for the bible.

 

There are those people who study the bible purely for debates like this. Trying to prove why we should not take the bible seriously.

[Tanis]

Tanis, it is clear of your hatred for the bible.

There are those people who study the bible purely for debates like this. Trying to prove why we should not take the bible seriously.

I hate bigotry.

I hate infanticide.

I hate genocide.

I hate rape.

I hate racism.

I hate sexism.

I hate pride.

I hate hypocrisy.

 

I hate a lot of things most people hate, but they seem to 'forgive' if it's in their 'holy' book.

 

The greatest tool an atheist has to 'convert', (and I use the word as loosely as possible), a religious person has always been their own religious text.

 

It is difficult for me to believe that any man or woman of conscience could stay true to their religious text after they actually READ it.

 

 

 

But, do not mistake my distaste for religion as a blanket hatred for the religious.

If I might borrow something religious people like to say -Hate the sin, not the sinner.

 

 

Hate the religion, not the religious.

[theNexus]

Tanis:

 

Funny you said that... I hate RELIGION too...

 

Christianity is not a religion. It's a personal relationship with our Lord Jesus.

I hate Religion because it has been used to control the masses and persecute

the innocent.

 

Shame you cannot make the distinction between religion and a christian.

That is why I stated on of my replies in one of the threads "I'm a Christian, No Labels"

 

Everyone should hate Religion. Religion is how some wars keep going through the ages.

It sickens me that wars are either one religious group against another or one non believing

group against a religion.

 

I do not identify with any Religious Group. I am a Christian. I believe in my relationship with my

Lord Jesus and not what any religious group no matter which one tells me I should be.

 

Jesus said the church is the people not the Religions that have popped up over the past 2000 years.

[Tanis]

Tanis:

 

Funny you said that... I hate RELIGION too...

 

Christianity is not a religion. It's a personal relationship with our Lord Jesus.

I hate Religion because it has been used to control the masses and persecute

the innocent.

 

Shame you cannot make the distinction between religion and a christian.

That is why I stated on of my replies in one of the threads "I'm a Christian, No Labels"

 

Everyone should hate Religion. Religion is how some wars keep going through the ages.

It sickens me that wars are either one religious group against another or one non believing

group against a religion.

 

I do not identify with any Religious Group. I am a Christian. I believe in my relationship with my

Lord Jesus and not what any religious group no matter which one tells me I should be.

 

Jesus said the church is the people not the Religions that have popped up over the past 2000 years.

 

Chris·ti·an·i·ty/ˌkrisCHēˈanitē/

noun

1. the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, or its beliefs and practices.

[theNexus]

Written by someone who has no idea what Christianity is.. Trying to put us in a box with all other religious people.

[Tanis]

Written by someone who has no idea what Christianity is.. Trying to put us in a box with all other religious people.

Please, in all seriousness, are you trolling do you TRULY think this way?

 

I'm not mad, I don't get mad, internet people ain't worth getting mad over.

I'm just curious.

 

Because any priest or pastor or other religious leader I've talked to 'admits' that Christianity is a RELIGION.

Every dictionary you'll find says the same thing.

 

To deny Christianity is a religion is to deny Jesus was a Jew.

You can do it, but you'd be wrong.

[† LimitLess]

With all do respect

theNexus does not feel that Christianity is a religion, but more as a way of life.

[theNexus]

With all do respect

theNexus does not feel that Christianity is a religion, but more as a way of life.

 

 

Man you said it better than I could have. I give you that one. Personal relationship with Jesus. (our way or life) Not tied to actual religion.

 

thank you for that Limitless.

 

Christianity really is hard to explain. WoW!! LOL

Edited August 24, 2014 by theNexus

[Tanis]

It's not hard when you live in the world of facts.

Christianity, by its very nature, is a RELIGION.

Putting your head in the sand doesn't make it so a word has changed meaning.

But, whatever, there's only so much crap you can wade though till you realize not only are you talking to a brick wall...
You're talking to a brick wall that 'thinks' it's a unicorn and no matter what you do or so or prove it won't back down from wanting join MLP.

XD

Edited August 24, 2014 by Tanis