Religion

[Citizenmanman]

a lone couch outside is soaking wet. Sure, there's a possibility that some random kids doused it with water but I'm betting it rained last night .

4) People have given accounts over the years as Christians of how God helped them through their tough times. I myself ask God for what I need and, more often than not, I get it. Asking for money is nothing compared to asking for relief of pain; and anyway, why money? It won't buy you pain relief, comfort you when your sad, wake you up when your at work, or help you to focus, so why bother?

Sound reasoning?

Why would you care whether a random couch is wet, and how it got wet?

I wanted to point out that money can, in fact, buy you pain relief, it can rid you of sadness, money can buy you things to keep you awake at work, and if you have money to throw around you don't need to focus other then for a little bit on what you just bought, then when you get bored of it, occupy yourself with something else you bought.

I don't give a shit what you think or believe in, and hell, if you, as a person, need to believe in something to keep on going, that's very sad, but at least you are trying to keep going, no? (Not you specifically... I just realized it might be taken personally because I quoted you...) I don't hate religious people (Unless they are assholes, douche bags, or jackasses about it, or are people I do not get along with due to their personality ect...).

I hate religion itself, not those who are part of it. Most religions breed the thinking that, you are superior to those who do not believe in your religion. Christianity is a good example, same with Islam (if that is the name of the religion...). Christians talk about how you can only know true happiness if you believe in it's god, that those who do not believe are "empty" or will never know happiness. I am happy, I don't believe in that god, or any other deity.

Know what I believe in... I don't care... that's it... I do not care whether there is a god, gods, devil, devils, demons, angels, or any form of any of that... I will live however I feel like living at the moment. I enjoy every day without believing in some story. I am my own god, I am my own devil, I am my own being, and fuck those who think I am not mine. If I want to kill for fun I will, (I don't though... at the moment at least... no one knows what might end up happening later on... side note; People who believe in fate, I DO FUCKING HATE THEM AS PEOPLE), if I wanna get drunk, have sex in some normally taboo manner, gamble, curse, preform an abortion, force someone to do something, fight, recycle, commit suicide, help someone commit suicide, masturbate, or torture someone/something... it is my choice, and no one, and nothing can judge me, other then me. (Others can try, but I do not care; because if someone else judges you, regardless of why, they are the ones at fault and not you). Sure, people can have their own opinions of me, just as I can have my own opinions of them. You can an opinion of what I think, I can have an opinion of what you think. You know why... because to you, what you believe is true. Whatever you believe is the absolute truth... but whatever I believe is the absolute truth as well. You believe in a god, and so there is a god... I don't believe in a god, so there is no god. It's all about how you perceive things.

No one can prove anything, and we will never prove anything, other then to ourselves. You know for a fact there is a god... so there you are, there is the proof... I don't believe in your god, that's the proof that your god doesn't exist. Do you know why it works perfectly like that? Because EVERY LIVING CREATURE IS WORTH EXACTLY THE SAME AS ANY OTHER LIVING CREATURE, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY DO, HOW THEY DO IT, AND WHY THEY DO IT. WHEN WE DIE, WE ARE WORTHLESS, BECAUSE WE ARE NO LONGER A LIVING CREATURE.

We are born, we live, we die, we are remembered, we are forgotten. Those are the only things that matter, because those are what define us as beings.

Now, this IS directed at magix1reaper and any other believers of a deity... You believe in god, right? You honestly, sincerely, totally, and fully believe in god? Yes, to me appears so, but why do you try to prove it to someone else? It is far more effective if you just simply believe. To believe without doubt, to have true faith, is far more compelling. If you believe in your god, then don't try to prove he exists, because all that does is make me think you are trying to prove it to yourself. If you believe in him/her/it, just believe. Why bother trying tell others they are wrong? Is it because your god doesn't give you the happiness you say it does? Are you trying to fill a void in your life, a void created by religion? Trying to fill it by proving others wrong, and making other people's lives seem less important then yours? That's what it makes me think you are trying to do, and I am sure that many other people suddenly get that, or a similar, notion. Try something... next time someone tries to prove god doesn't exist, read/listen to what they type/say, smile, and continue on your way without trying to justify your belief. I am willing to bet it will make you feel pretty damn good. Do what I would do, reply to them with something like, "You know, you're totally right." (followed by the smile to yourself). Start with this whole fucking post.

Because you know something religious people and non-religious people and all those in-between, those who are not defined by either... you are all totally right, everything you all say, is all completely true.

[† Koga]

Seriously, religion brings even more problems to the world and causes people to seperate themselves from others...hell...we have racism for that...but..religionism? Come on!!!

[Brynngar]

I am what is called an Agnostic Atheist. Which for those of you who do not understand the term which is most likely all of you i will explain. Simply put it means that while i personally do not believe in any higher power or being i do not hold any special knowledge that such things do not exist. Also the proper definition of Agnostic is as follows,

1: The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.

2:The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.

The definitions come from dictionary.com.

[MaoNaeiki]

I am atheist (Now i am not one of those ones that goes around bashing ones beliefs, i keep it to myself) because i find Religion to cause nothing but bad things to good people. (For example, look at All the Innocent people killed in the name of Islam. PS i mean no offense for those that are Islamic but are also peaceful, i mean not to slander the Islamic religion just because of a small group of people) OR how about Christianity Way back when (or even now, look at this site http://www.godhatesfredphelps.com/hatecrimes.html these are all people killed in the name of Christianity and other religions today. Note all these victims are either Homosexual/bi/Lesbian OR even Transsexual and there residences is in The U.S., there are sadly more victims then this around the world)

[CAM182]

I'm an atheist. I am also one of those people who does not like to disprove anyone else's beliefs. I just find that believing that god created everything or that the earth is 600 years old restricts our views on the world, and gives us a half assed answer. We got to look for answers ourselves instead of believing in ancient things we've held onto since the bronze age.

[ウェンキ Leki]

I am Hindu, Im from India. The southern part.

[kortesh]

my personal religion is wiccan/pagan

i prefer balance and so far wiccan/pagan is the most balanced i have encountered.i was never a christian and for about 5 years i was atheist untill i had a strong urge to study and learn magic. learning about magic is what led me to become wiccan and then latter pagan.

[Dark Spy]

I'm a Muslim I don't know really how to explain the existence of god in English but this video may help u .

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[Yuna]

Ahh. im Roman Calothic but i also believe in my Native American ways. ^^

[† poetictragedy]

I've been raised Presbyterian, which is a sub-category of Christianity. But I honestly feel more agnostic than anything else.

[† Mute point]

Religion is a subject that many people get crazy over, and one that I don't get to discuss very often. The missionaries around here don't understand sign language, so I can't talk to them

I like to look at both sides of things.. On one hand, I prefer to believe in things I can see, smell, hear, or touch.. On the other, I have a very active imagination, and can accept that there could easily be something beyond that out there somewhere.

For example, the theory of the Big Bang, vs the theory of creation.. Why can't they both be true? Couldn't whatever god/goddess have used the big bang to set off what he/she knew would become the universe? Evolution vs creationism is another example.. Perhaps the power behind it (assuming there was one.) used evolution as the process to create other creatures so that once we figured out science and stuff we could come up with our own theory.

I personally believe that organized religion causes more problems than it solves.. But it does have a purpose in spite of that, and people are comforted by the idea that there is life beyond the grave. Which makes them happier, and happy people are better for society than sad/angry people.

[s0teric]

I don't care... that's it... I do not care whether there is a god, gods, devil, devils, demons, angels, or any form of any of that... I will live however I feel like living at the moment. I enjoy every day without believing in some story. I am my own god, I am my own devil, I am my own being, and fuck those who think I am not mine. If I want to kill for fun I will.

I just want to clarify something and commend you! You are a consistent Athiest! You recognize that if there is no god then there are no absolutes, therefore no basis for any sort of ethic or moral. However when you go on to judge the Christian ethic on the same standard...

It is far more effective if you just simply believe. To believe without doubt, to have true faith, is far more compelling. If you believe in your god, then don't try to prove he exists, because all that does is make me think you are trying to prove it to yourself. If you believe in him/her/it, just believe. Why bother trying tell others they are wrong? Is it because your god doesn't give you the happiness you say it does? Are you trying to fill a void in your life, a void created by religion? Trying to fill it by proving others wrong, and making other people's lives seem less important then yours? That's what it makes me think you are trying to do, and I am sure that many other people suddenly get that, or a similar, notion.

The Christian ethic, in this regard, is best illustrated by the athiest comedian Penn Gillete. You can watch his video here

As a summary, if you don't want to watch it, what Penn basically concludes is that, "How much do you have to hate someone to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them. If I believed that a truck was coming at you there would be a certain point when I would tackle you and this is more important than that." Even coming from your perspective of doing whatever you feel like (which I agree applies to Christians as well, we do whatever we like we just call what we do that is outside of God's character sin, either way you do whatever you like however if you are a Christian God's work will be evident in your actions) if all that matters is your own personal pleasure than if there is an eternity, then it is in your personal interest to care as well to secure the outcome.

Because you know something religious people and non-religious people and all those in-between, those who are not defined by either... you are all totally right, everything you all say, is all completely true.

I believe, in this case, you are being facetious (correct me if I'm wrong) because you would rather not discuss it because you believe the Christian ethic, in regard to evangelism, is wrong. Therefore, you are saying you won't accept any evidence. But I would argue, as would most reasonable people, that evidence matters and I will give some in the proceeding post. I hope you read and consider the evidence.

[s0teric]

The topic of this post is giving evidence for the existence of God. Specifically, I will cover the validity of the Bible and evidence for the resurrection. As I go on to say, this is significant because, "If the resurrection was false all of christianity was a lie. If it is true than that provides very strong evidence that it is true" As illustrated here, if you have a dead man walking around this implies that there is a force at work that can overcome death. This is a preposterous idea, in the views of science, but based on the precision and witnesses (I will go on to explain) it is undeniable that this CLAIM was true (that is, people claimed that Jesus rose from the dead). Was this claim true though? I will break down 12 explanations that attempt to refute the idea.

First, we look at the source of our information of God, which is the Bible and its validity. Evidence for the Bible is its historical accuracy. The New Testament can be verified because we found over 5000 copies with the books being written only 50 years previously. We can also reconstruct the entire new testament from quotes in letters the early church fathers sent to each other. Also, half the old testament can be verified because of the Dead Sea scrolls (scrolls found in pots the most ancient copies of many books of the old testament we have). Each book matched up with these ancient copies almost exactly with only minor word differences. Also looking at the historical accuracy of the first half of the Old testament can be verified by Israel's history and its culture. Scribes recording these books were perfectionists that considered when two letters of a word touch an error and if there was an error they would erase the entire panel(3 or 4 columns of text) as well as the previous panel because it had touched the panel with the error. Based on this evidence, I presume that the Bible has not been tampered with but what of its accuracy? Well, let's look to the event that defines christianity, the resurrection. If the resurrection was false all of christianity was a lie. If it is true than that provides very strong evidence that it is true. Several theories designed do discredit the validity of the resurrection are that the disciples stole the body and hid/ burned it. This is unlikely seeing how it was guarded by two trained roman guards who could easily fend off a few untrained men. Even assuming that they could get past the guards the tomb was sealed off by a boulder that probably weighed several tons they wouldn't have been able to move it. Even assuming they were able to beat the guards, move the stone, and get away unseen why would each and every one of them die for a lie? Another theory is that those who checked for the body went to the wrong tomb. Jesus was a celebrity they would have known where he was buried there were guards and it was sealed they would have known which tomb it was. If it was the wrong tomb they could have just dug Jesus out then and produced a body. Another theory is that he was buried in a graveyard and eaten by dogs. If this were so someone would have pointed out that he was in one of the common graveyards where they piled normal crucifixion victims and disproved that he rose from the dead (he wasn't in the tomb they checked).

Yet another theory is that the disciples were all hallucinating. Which is impossible there has never been a record of more than one person having the same hallucination at once much less 12 people. Next is the swoon theory, which, if you read Case for Christ there are EXTENSIVE medical reasons breaking down what is described in scripture and these were trained Roman soldiers they knew when people were dead even if he did escape he was wrapped in linens (you could not get out of these given the why burial linens were wrapped) on death's door sealed in a tomb by a (probably) several ton boulder which was guarded by trained soldiers. He couldn't escape. Some say the whole thing was a legend. This would take multiple generations to form and people could have testified against Paul who taught this 20 years after Jesus's death. Again t hey could have procured a body and disproved the whole thing and if Jesus never existed (which he did as described by several neutral historians of that day) they could have disproved Paul and no one would have believed him. Lastly, some say grave robbers stole the body. In this case the tomb was protected sealed and why would they do it, there was just Jesus in there.

[† Mute point]

The thing with the ressurection, is that they say he rose from the dead after 3 days right? Even back then there were drugs that could slow and weaken the heart rate and breathing to levels that are difficult to detect even now with out fancy machines, in addition to causing a comatose state. Which would mimic death well enough to fool even the most sophisticated doctor back in those days.

Burial shrouds were never designed to keep anything in.. I think they are supposed to keep bugs from eating the body. But they wouldn't stop someone from working themself loose if they were wrapped while still alive. As for the tomb, there's no way to be sure if it even existed, but if it did, you also can't be sure if it was entirely sealed before he got up and walked out of it.

There is also the chance that he had help.. I mean, if he hadn't, they would have probably left him hanging there for at least another day, which would have killed him for sure, and based on the premise that he had help setting up his "ressurection" that help could easily have dug him out of the half finished tomb, and sealed it up again.

Also, not trying to offend people.. but if he really DID die, and was ressurected... then that means.. OMG JESUS ZOMBIE!

[Vael]

I believe in logic and evidence, until I see a god or evidence of a god for myself I cannot comprehend that he/she/it even exists, though I am open to believe that a supernatural force, on a higher level of understanding, does exist, I am also open to scientific causes for our existence, but the same rules still apply, I need to see evidence first, remember the big bang theory is just a theory not fact so I still don't believe it.

and please excuse the grammar, I'm really tired right now

[sunako77]

i believe that there is a higher power. something/someone that watches over us. i am not inclined to side with any religion but, i was raised by a roman catholic dad and a christian mom.

i also believe that if the bible WAS ever true, it ISN'T now. i think it is already heavily edited to suit the religions of today.

[s0teric]

i also believe that if the bible WAS ever true, it ISN'T now. i think it is already heavily edited to suit the religions of today.

read my previous post

The thing with the ressurection, is that they say he rose from the dead after 3 days right? Even back then there were drugs that could slow and weaken the heart rate and breathing to levels that are difficult to detect even now with out fancy machines, in addition to causing a comatose state. Which would mimic death well enough to fool even the most sophisticated doctor back in those days.

Like I said read case for Christ here's a link to the book online http://www.thejesusjoint.net/books/leestrobel/caseforchrist.pdf lol really bad website name but anyway page 177 starting with the torture before the cross to page 185. It gives extensive medical evidence yes it is a few pages but considering what you're already gambling on this decision it's worth it

Burial shrouds were never designed to keep anything in.. I think they are supposed to keep bugs from eating the body. But they wouldn't stop someone from working themself loose if they were wrapped while still alive. As for the tomb, there's no way to be sure if it even existed, but if it did, you also can't be sure if it was entirely sealed before he got up and walked out of it.

and this was no burial shroud these were linens that you would wrap around someone's body tightly which they did to preserve it (this is based on historical evidence from the time period and how the rich were typically buried as Joseph of Arimathea was rich). Also, the pharisees were angry at Jesus and they wanted to make sure that the body was NOT stolen which is why they posted two trained gaurds there he couldn't have just walked out.

Nor would any help have done him any good. Who would have helped him anyway? The disciples were all convinced he was a fake. Who would have risked their life (fought 2 armed guards) to save a dead man? Even going along with these very unlikely claims (the most exceptional situations) it seems that belligerant attitude is directed towards christians on these things when athiests completely rely on the skeptical and exceptional situations (monkey at a typewriter) and somehow we lack evidence? It is more likely to assume that if a tornado goes through a junkyard and forms a jumbo jet (this is statistiaclly accurate) Curious to hear your guys' thoughts

There is also the chance that he had help.. I mean, if he hadn't, they would have probably left him hanging there for at least another day, which would have killed him for sure, and based on the premise that he had help setting up his "ressurection" that help could easily have dug him out of the half finished tomb, and sealed it up again.

Again he didn't have "help" setting it up. Judas betrayed him. Jesus predicted it, but Jesus wasn't winking at him or something during the last supper saying someone's gonna betray me to night Judas hung himself as a result of his actions this wasn't something he would do to someone he loved enough to hang himself over it And I don't know where you're coming up with this half finished tomb it is plain that you don't have evidence to support it's just a proposal, and if Jesus were walking around the people would have said he didn't die and we didn't finish the tomb so he never rose again, no I haven't heard any evidence to support this half finished tomb, so I believe that is enough to refute it

Also, not trying to offend people.. but if he really DID die, and was ressurected... then that means.. OMG JESUS ZOMBIE!

Also, you are betting your soul on this if you're wrong your in a lot of trouble like nothing you've ever imagined not to be a killjoy I like a good joke as much as the next guy (and probably make more jokes than is healthy) but this is like the most serious thing on earth because if you're wrong then you lose everything if you're right you gain nothing, If I'm wrong I lose nothing but if I'm right I gain everything. (Pascals wager). Just something for you to consider

[sunako77]

read my previous post

awww.. but, your post is just tooooo long.. hehe.. peace..

[s0teric]

lol I know I felt the same way

[† Mute point]

I'm not saying that I'm definitely right, nor am I saying that it is entirely impossible that there was in fact, a ressurection. I'm just saying that there are actual medical ways to pull off exactly the things that happened.

If questioning the facts of a story is enough to damn me to hell, then god is not nearly as loving and caring as people want to portray him to be. Based on the bible, we were put on this earth to learn, and to gain a physical body.. well, you don't learn anything if you don't question.

I would also like to think that whatever higher power is out there would have a sense of humor. I mean, if he doesn't strike people down for writing really long stories explaining that Adam and Eve were stoned and had the munchies when they ate the forbidden apples... I think I'm relatively safe with a harmless zombie comment.