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RegorTheGreat

Can RWBY get its home in the Anime Section?

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Of any animation technically not considered anime, I really think RWBY deserves its spot in the Anime section.  Monty was part Japanese.  So this could be considered an animation by a Japanese artist just developed and produced outside of Japan.  I know this is what Monty would have wanted!  -RIP Monty Oum

 

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2013/07/12/feature-inside-rooster-teeths-rwby

 

I was originally surprised a while back that I never saw RWBY in the Anime section.  I thought, "Wow, I wonder if nobody knows about this show..."  I had just received my just released BR of season 2 at this time.  So it didn't surprise me others probably didn't even know about this show.  But, I did a search anyway just to make sure and I found someone already did Season 1 and was working on Season 2 in the "Cartoons" section.  :(  There aren't many American made animations that I would consider watching like I do anime.  But RWBY is a hidden gem that I believe is worthy of special consideration to move its home from "Cartoons" to "Anime".  Everything about this show relates more to Anime than American Cartoon.  The OVA/Movie "Exaella" is Russian, but is considered "Anime"...?  Maybe because the primary language used was Japanese?

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Nationality of the creator (Monty Oum being part Japanese) doesn't really affect the product. According to Oum, he was "Cambodian, Vietnamese, Chinese, and Japanese." He was born in Rhode Island though and lived in the US all of his life.

 

RWBY is officially classified as an American "anime-style" web-series cartoon. The production company "Rooster Teeth" is based in Austin, Texas and Los Angeles, California.

 

People still clamor for Avatar ~ The Last Airbender to be considered anime, despite being done by Nickelodeon. In it's case though, the animation studio "DR Movie" is actually Korean.

 

Generally most people follow what aniDB and MAL classify as anime, though on rare occasions such as with "The Red Turtle" they failed us, when they opted to not classify it as anime despite being made at Miyazaki's request and animated and co-produced by Studio Ghibli in Japan for the French-based company Wild Bunch.

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I do, in a way, agree about Avatar ~ The Last Airbender possibly being considered an anime.  It's probably the only other "Animation" in the US that I treated as anime.  But by saying it is "anime-style" instead of "anime" is a lot like saying sparkling wine isn't Champagne (Champagne can only be considered "Champagne" if  Sparkling Wine was made in Champagne, France or it can't be classified as "Champagne") I see "anime" vs "anime-style" like "Puma" vs "Mountain Lion"...

 

Yes, Monty was not 100% Japanese.  But I think there was enough Japanese in him to use it for argumentative sake.

 

But I understand what you mean.  There are those special case animations that end up in the gray area of classification.  I'm not sure if there is a heritage thing for Japanese people or how strict the criteria must be for the classification.  So I don't know the deciding factors, other than, "It was made in Japan", especially for someone who develops something they consider anime.  I wonder if there is a certain factor that ultimately rules it out, rather than the collective of factors that could rule it in.

 

Anyway, this discussion is probably moot.  Thanks for sharing the info Koby!

Edited by RegorTheGreat

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1 hour ago, RegorTheGreat said:

Yes, Monty was not 100% Japanese.  But I think there was enough Japanese in him to use it for argumentative sake.

Eh, I think you misunderstood what I meant. Even if he was 100% Japanese, it'd have no baring on the decision because the animation studio, Rooster Teeth, is a US-based company and the animation was done on US soil. While technically there isn't really anything separating anime from cartoons aside from the fandom which mostly is due to the stigmata in the US that cartoons = for kids and anime fans wanting to seem elite by saying they don't watch cartoons, they watch anime... The classification taken from sources like aniDB and MAL state that for it to be considered an anime and thus allowed in their anime database, that the animation studio must have connections to a Japanese company. This is why "chinese anime" still get classified as anime, although people generally classify anime as strictly "Japanese animation". Because these chinese anime are often animated by studios in Japan or the companies that do animate them also operate within Japan such as Haoliners.

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Basically we need to look into the definition of Anime which is a sub-genre of animation. 

Animation that is originating and produced in and by Japan is called or classified an Anime.

 

So no .. RWBY even if aesthetically looks and feels like anime, it is not, same goes for Avatar.

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The actual problem here is the difference between style/genre and terminology. Basically, everyone's stupid and there's no proper consensus. If you're in Japan, all animation is anime, regardless of origin, because anime literally just means animation. Therefore, in Japan, Pixar films are anime, as well as Avatar, RWBY, Spongebob, and everything.

 

now, for us westerners, RWBY and Avatar are clearly anime-inspired and in genre/style, but due to longstanding arguments (and some silly elitism) there's no good term to apply to it. Cartoon is obviously wrong.

 

 

Since Kametsu had to settle on something, there's one easy to follow rule here regarding specific location of content.

  • If it has an entry on AniDB or MAL, it goes in anime. If it doesn't, it goes in Cartoons & Animation.

Whether or not things should be listed on AniDB/MAL is another argument, but for the sake of easier moderating and sorting, that's what we use here. As a concession, the Cartoons board is named Cartoons & Animation, to acknowledge those shows that clearly aren't cartoons, but also can't go into anime.

 

 

 

 

final addendum: any feedback regarding Kametsu site operation and rules should actually be posted in the Feedback and Assistance board, please! Staff is much more likely to notice threads posted there, and we are always happy to get feedback on how we're running the site into the ground.

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10 hours ago, Catar said:

we are always happy to get feedback on how we're running the site into the ground.

:cry:

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4 minutes ago, Koby said:

:cry:

catar was a mistake.

 

 

 

also, now that I'm not posting from my phone:

14 hours ago, RegorTheGreat said:

Of any animation technically not considered anime, I really think RWBY deserves its spot in the Anime section.  Monty was part Japanese.  So this could be considered an animation by a Japanese artist just developed and produced outside of Japan.  I know this is what Monty would have wanted!  -RIP Monty Oum

 

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2013/07/12/feature-inside-rooster-teeths-rwby

 

I was originally surprised a while back that I never saw RWBY in the Anime section.  I thought, "Wow, I wonder if nobody knows about this show..."  I had just received my just released BR of season 2 at this time.  So it didn't surprise me others probably didn't even know about this show.  But, I did a search anyway just to make sure and I found someone already did Season 1 and was working on Season 2 in the "Cartoons" section.  :(  There aren't many American made animations that I would consider watching like I do anime.  But RWBY is a hidden gem that I believe is worthy of special consideration to move its home from "Cartoons" to "Anime".  Everything about this show relates more to Anime than American Cartoon.  The OVA/Movie "Exaella" is Russian, but is considered "Anime"...?  Maybe because the primary language used was Japanese?

RWBY is definitely cared about here. It's actually my third most-viewed release thread, behind Hunter x Hunter and Log Horizon. I don't know what you searched for, because my thread should have come up right near the top with BD releases for the first four seasons and weekly webrips for S05. So the content is here. (and someday I'll get around to fixing the S03 BDs...)

 

As for Exaella, it actually does belong in Cartoons & Animation. I'm a little surprised you bring it up given that the thread was posted four years ago and last replied more than a year ago, but I've moved it to the proper section now nonetheless. If you ever see something mis-filed, feel free to hit the Report button to let the mod team know so we can move it to the correct location.

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@Koby
Yes, I think I misunderstood a bit. You are correct.

@emjay911
I do wish we had a better categorization for these particular shows as I never look in cartoons section because all the cartoon shoes I was like Archer and South Park and so on air here and I can just DVR. But for the others from other countries that I wouldn't know about, I probably would never find of it goes into the cartoon section. Exaella cane out of nowhere and I really liked it. Hell, I can't remember how I stumbled over RWBY, but that would have sucked if I never knew about it.

@Catar
I totally agree with you and understand the reasoning behind how KF is categorizing them. Until the genre changes as far as how they are categorized, it makes sense to use AniDB and MAL as the best source to use for categorizing as a general standard for the time being.

I guess someone needs to coin a new term (not "anime") which includes most anime and adult themed animation to recognize this brief range type of animation (automated drawing, CG, etc.) But I don't see this happening anytime soon unless a major company, maybe like Funimation, decides to licence a show that is technically not anime but try to sell it as if it was and attempt to set a new standard/category to identify the type of show so that it fits in their like of licensed animation.

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54 minutes ago, RegorTheGreat said:

I guess someone needs to coin a new term (not "anime") which includes most anime and adult themed animation to recognize this brief range type of animation (automated drawing, CG, etc.) But I don't see this happening anytime soon unless a major company, maybe like Funimation, decides to licence a show that is technically not anime but try to sell it as if it was and attempt to set a new standard/category to identify the type of show so that it fits in their like of licensed animation.

With Netflix creating anime now (or at least licensing them? Not sure if they are actually in charge of the animation and production), the term may change. The term itself is primarily aimed at the style of animation and drawing and not so much it's origin as I believe Korea and China create anime as well. The style itself originated in Japan so, that is why it primary focuses on what is made in Japan and what Japan endorses, such as airing in their county.

Eventually, it may simply be anything created in the style of original Japanese animation. Given how popular Anime has become over the years, especially with celebrities admitting to their interest in it, it may become that sooner than we know. Mainly due to Netflix, if anything.

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Just now, NeutralHatred said:

With Netflix creating anime now (or at least licensing them? Not sure if they are actually in charge of the animation and production), the term may change. The term itself is primarily aimed at the style of animation and drawing and not so much it's origin as I believe Korea and China create anime as well. The style itself originated in Japan so, that is why it primary focuses on what is made in Japan and what Japan endorses, such as airing in their county.

Eventually, it may simply be anything created in the style of original Japanese animation. Given how popular Anime has become over the years, especially with celebrities admitting to their interest in it, it may become that sooner than we know. Mainly due to Netflix, if anything.

I wouldn't expect any changes until western companies start showing up prominently on production committees. Netflix is just commissioning anime, but doesn't seem to be appearing in any actual production capacity yet. Funimation and ADV both notably actually pushed their way into a production committee or two over the years (Funimation most recently being a part of Dimension W's committee). Once you start seeing companies pop up in the Japanese credits like that, then we might start to see a shift in how it's referred to.

 

but at the end of the day it's still just a pedantic argument that really only weebs care about =P

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A better way would have to classify this (and other shows like it) as 3D-CGi animation, so you would have cartoons, 2D anime, and 3D anime/cartoon (this could be up for debate since both countries (I'll throw in China as well) has done 3DCGi but to each their own.

 

Spoiler

And speaking of RWBY, SEASON 4 JAP DUB F'ING WHEN?

 

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1 minute ago, Tsu.Ku.Yo.Mi said:

A better way would have to classify this (and other shows like it) as 3D-CGi animation, so you would have cartoons, 2D anime, and 3D anime/cartoon (this could be up for debate since both countries (I'll throw in China as well) has done 3DCGi but to each their own.

 

 

Doesn't solve the debate about Avatar/Korra, plus there's so much 3D animation used in anime in general these days that plenty of them could be filed under either.

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While I love both Avatar and RWBY a lot, they are the whole square vs rectangle thing. All squares are rectangles bot not all rectangles are squares. As in anime and Avatar/Rwby are all animation, though not all are anime no matter how much they may look the part.

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On 3/12/2018 at 12:55 PM, thedoctor2014 said:

While I love both Avatar and RWBY a lot, they are the whole square vs rectangle thing. All squares are rectangles bot not all rectangles are squares. As in anime and Avatar/Rwby are all animation, though not all are anime no matter how much they may look the part.

So how would you classify Anime?

 

I agree with Catar.  Anime itself has gone beyond its own definition to where getting technical with what Anime is, almost all current "Anime" technically isn't Anime anymore.  3DCGI is used to greatly speed up development of anime and helps to generate more in depth gradients.  Most Anime today is only part "Anime" at most.  Appleseed, Vexille, and many others are 100% CGI and are still considered Anime.  It's just like a hamburger...the name sticks even though it is not was it originally was.  This leaves it up to debate as to how to determine what "Video" would be considered "Anime" and the definition will change with time.  That's why I was hoping to expand the definition and reclassify RWBY as an Anime.  Oranges, tangerines, mandarines...they are all pretty much different, but are basically the same thing.  Just call them all an orange and be done with it.

 

As far as how this site will continue to classify "Video", I agree it is probably best (and simplest) to keep things consistent with a major source.  Eventually, hopefully, a new major source will take the initiative to reclassify and help set a new trend in classifying Video...and maybe use the term "Anime" to be considered simply as a particular style which can be created anywhere and by anyone...

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Major portions of Legend of Korra were animated at Studio Pierrot, who also did Tokyo Ghoul, Naruto, Bleach, etc. 

 

The definition will always be messy these days due to globalization. 

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I think trying to classify something a cartoon outside of Japan as anime because it has some of the animation and drawing styles of anime is absurd. Lot of cartoons outside of Japan borrow animation and drawing styles from cartoons inside Japan and many Japanese cartoons IE anime borrow anime and drawing styles from cartoons outside of Japan.

 

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On 3/16/2018 at 5:18 PM, ezikialrage said:

I think trying to classify something a cartoon outside of Japan as anime because it has some of the animation and drawing styles of anime is absurd. Lot of cartoons outside of Japan borrow animation and drawing styles from cartoons inside Japan and many Japanese cartoons IE anime borrow anime and drawing styles from cartoons outside of Japan.

 

I had a feeling this might rub someone the wrong way.  But this is precisely why I posted this in this section as I am looking for exactly what/why/how people, who are strict in the categorization for defining anime, determine or define what is classified as anime and what isn't.  I assume you feel any animation created in Japan is anime and everything that isn't is cartoon?  If so, what if an animation was outsourced to multiple production companies outside Japan to do the animation, music, sound production...but the voice actors and completion of the material is completed in Japan and is released in Japan?  There are many hypothetical situations in which the definition can be challenged.  Maybe something as simple as any animation released in Japan would be considered anime and animation released outside Japan would be cartoon?

 

Sorry if I am overthinking this and making it seem complicated.  I'm just very interested in other peoples thoughts on the matter and trying to get a good understanding why...as I feel the traditional standard for defining anime may have been a very simple thing 10 years ago, but I really think it is much more in the gray area today as the popularity of anime has increased tremendously outside of Japan.  I remember when I first saw anime over 10 years ago, it was called Japanimation.  Then, eventually, it simplified down to anime.  But, Japan calls all animation, even from other countries, anime...then maybe we were using the wrong term to begin with and should have been calling them cartoons.  But instead, by people outside Japan using the term anime means they used the same word, but with a slightly different meaning.  So if Japan calls RWBY anime, why can't we?  "Anime" is basically what fandom chooses to define it as...and as a result, the definition is simply opinion based.  The way each of use the term "anime" can be considered both accurate and inaccurate at the same time...a bit ambiguous, right?  But I think Koby hit the nail on the head with his second post in thread.  So I will leave it at that.

 

I would like to hear more on your thoughts on the matter, if you would like to share.

Edited by RegorTheGreat

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On 3/17/2018 at 5:36 PM, RegorTheGreat said:

I had a feeling this might rub someone the wrong way.  But this is precisely why I posted this in this section as I am looking for exactly what/why/how people, who are strict in the categorization for defining anime, determine or define what is classified as anime and what isn't.  I assume you feel any animation created in Japan is anime and everything that isn't is cartoon?  If so, what if an animation was outsourced to multiple production companies outside Japan to do the animation, music, sound production...but the voice actors and completion of the material is completed in Japan and is released in Japan?  There are many hypothetical situations in which the definition can be challenged.  Maybe something as simple as any animation released in Japan would be considered anime and animation released outside Japan would be cartoon?

 

Sorry if I am overthinking this and making it seem complicated.  I'm just very interested in other peoples thoughts on the matter and trying to get a good understanding why...as I feel the traditional standard for defining anime may have been a very simple thing 10 years ago, but I really think it is much more in the gray area today as the popularity of anime has increased tremendously outside of Japan.  I remember when I first saw anime over 10 years ago, it was called Japanimation.  Then, eventually, it simplified down to anime.  But, Japan calls all animation, even from other countries, anime...then maybe we were using the wrong term to begin with and should have been calling them cartoons.  But instead, by people outside Japan using the term anime means they used the same word, but with a slightly different meaning.  So if Japan calls RWBY anime, why can't we?  "Anime" is basically what fandom chooses to define it as...and as a result, the definition is simply opinion based.  The way each of use the term "anime" can be considered both accurate and inaccurate at the same time...a bit ambiguous, right?  But I think Koby hit the nail on the head with his second post in thread.  So I will leave it at that.

 

I would like to hear more on your thoughts on the matter, if you would like to share.

 

Cartoons are cartoons regardless of where they are made and who they are made for. I know that to the Japanese all cartoons are anime. However outside of Japan when people say anime they are specifically talking about cartoons made in Japan primarily for a Japanese audience. This is why cartoons that were outsourced to Japan don't count as anime. If it outsourced animation work counted as anime then a lot of cartons from ThunderCats to Tiny Toons would be considered anime. Heck Family Guy would be considered Korean animation if we went by where a cartoon was outsourced to. I do remember in the 1990s buying anime and it was refereed to as Japananimation.

 

  Usually when anime fans outside of Japan are trying to call a cartoon outside of Japan a anime they seem to be unaware of the fact that anime is very diverse in animation and drawing style sand is diverse in what kind of stories it tells. They think because the characters have big pan cake eyes and tells a story that's interesting them  that somehow that is the criteria for what an anime is. Lots of anime don't look Sailor Moon, Naruto, Bleach, Dragon Ball Z, or even Great Teacher Onizuka. Some of it looks like Dead Leaves, Tekkonkinkreet , Mind Games, Angels Egg, Crayon Shin Chan, Cat Soup, Tale of the White Serpent, Momotaro's Divine Sea Warriors, Kowabon, Cat Shit One, Belladona of Sadness, or even Japan's longest running anime series Sazae-san.  Requiem from the Darkness looks like something comic book artist Sam Kieth would draw instead of what many would consider a typical anime style.

Edited by ezikialrage

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Oh wow. I didn't realize so many cartoons were outsourced like that. I meant what I said more of as a hypothetical situation not realizing how much it was actually done. Thanks for the reply and the way way you explained it. I have a better understanding now.

I regards to how you mentioned many anime don't have the appearances of what we call anime, I agree with you there. I was actually thinking about how I wouldn't even call some "anime" anime because of that exact reason. If I was to tell someone about one of those, I would call it a Japanese cartoon instead of anime. That's how I, personally, categorize anime. I guess I'll just need to call RWBY an "American made anime-like series"...or maybe take out "American made" and simplify it to "Anime-like animation" so that it would be more universal to others, such as "Exaella".

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