Itachi vs Pain

[saminyt]

Oh ya and chibaku tensei would work great right cause its not like using it exhausted him to the point of literal death. After Itachi took out the fat pain with pure taijutsu (of which he is a master as he can probably open the gates given that even kakashi can do it) and after he took out the revival pain with an amaterasu or something then he would just go susannoo and own the whole fight.

For your information the Almighty push is like a one hit K/O move. Pain could have used it to kill Naruto at any point but his intention was to keep him alive. So, if he uses that move on Itachi, no matter how exhausted he might be, Itachi will be dead.

And about the Ninjutsu absorbing thing, Naruto mastered the Senjutsu not Itachi. So there will be no problem if Pain absorbs Itachi's jutsus.

[Koby]

Fine then let us see from another perspective like a battle simulation.

Itachi's amaterasu and Susanoo are his strongest moves right. These are useless against Nagato coz he can absorb Ninjutsu. And if you talk about devestating moves, then the three moves that the Deva path showed(Universal push, Gravitational pull and Planetary destruction) are stronger than Susanoo. I agree that Itachi is faster and more skilled in taijutsu and genjutsu but against these three attacks, he wouldn't stand a chance.

Against Jiraiya, Pain didn't actually show his true powers. His animal path and the ninjutsu absorbing path were the only ones in action. So even if Jiraiya knew the secret, the outcome would have been the same.

Let me give another logic. Suppose, Sharingan is like Super Saiyan from DBZ. In that logic, Mangekyou would be Super Saiyan 2 AND Rinnegan would be Super Saiyan 3. SO how can Super Saiyan 3 lose to Super Saiyan 2?

The deva path destroyed the whole konoha with a single attack. Tell me what attack of Itachi can stop him?

I find your logic kind of flawed no offense.

Having the most destructive move doesn't guarantee a victory or even that you're actually stronger.

At the time Naruto wiped the floor with Pain, I would have still considered Itachi stronger than Naruto.

You say Pain didn't really show his true powers to Jiraiya and thus outcome would still be the same. This is kind of incorrect as well because Jiraiya never was fighting to win. He was fighting for intel and by the time he figured it out it was too late to really do much. Sure he may have went Sage mode and stuff but he by the time he got serious he was already severely injured and it was too late to counter. Had he known going into the fight I believe it would definitely have ended differently as he would have been fighting to win instead of fighting simply for intel.

Eyes are not measured that way what so ever. Having better eyes doesn't mean you're stronger either as shown when Lee kicked Sasuke's ass.

As the other guy pointed out... Pain's ninjutsu stopping ability didn't stop Naruto. It wouldn't stop Itachi either.

Think about it. Naruto is about equal to Sasuke at that time, but Itachi dominated Sasuke. Meaning Itachi was stronger than Naruto at that time and far more intelligent and skilled with far more battle experience.

[KaoclazmMJR]

I find your logic kind of flawed no offense.

Having the most destructive move doesn't guarantee a victory or even that you're actually stronger.

At the time Naruto wiped the floor with Pain, I would have still considered Itachi stronger than Naruto.

You say Pain didn't really show his true powers to Jiraiya and thus outcome would still be the same. This is kind of incorrect as well because Jiraiya never was fighting to win. He was fighting for intel and by the time he figured it out it was too late to really do much. Sure he may have went Sage mode and stuff but he by the time he got serious he was already severely injured and it was too late to counter. Had he known going into the fight I believe it would definitely have ended differently as he would have been fighting to win instead of fighting simply for intel.

Eyes are not measured that way what so ever. Having better eyes doesn't mean you're stronger either as shown when Lee kicked Sasuke's ass.

As the other guy pointed out... Pain's ninjutsu stopping ability didn't stop Naruto. It wouldn't stop Itachi either.

Think about it. Naruto is about equal to Sasuke at that time, but Itachi dominated Sasuke. Meaning Itachi was stronger than Naruto at that time and far more intelligent and skilled with far more battle experience.

Oh so I'm "the other guy" now Koby? So Harsh! (jkz)

I completely agree with everything that you said but I think you may be overestimating Jiraiya's imperfect sage mode powers. Jiriaya was almost killed by Naruto when he went 4-tailed for the first time (he's got the freakin' massive scar to prove it) and Pain was able to at least subdue but by no means defeat 6 tailed Naruto. As awesome as Jiraiya is I think that both Naruto and Pain could beat him at the time of their fight IMO.

Everything so said was spot on tho! XD

[saminyt]

I find your logic kind of flawed no offense.

Having the most destructive move doesn't guarantee a victory or even that you're actually stronger.

At the time Naruto wiped the floor with Pain, I would have still considered Itachi stronger than Naruto.

You say Pain didn't really show his true powers to Jiraiya and thus outcome would still be the same. This is kind of incorrect as well because Jiraiya never was fighting to win. He was fighting for intel and by the time he figured it out it was too late to really do much. Sure he may have went Sage mode and stuff but he by the time he got serious he was already severely injured and it was too late to counter. Had he known going into the fight I believe it would definitely have ended differently as he would have been fighting to win instead of fighting simply for intel.

Eyes are not measured that way what so ever. Having better eyes doesn't mean you're stronger either as shown when Lee kicked Sasuke's ass.

As the other guy pointed out... Pain's ninjutsu stopping ability didn't stop Naruto. It wouldn't stop Itachi either.

Think about it. Naruto is about equal to Sasuke at that time, but Itachi dominated Sasuke. Meaning Itachi was stronger than Naruto at that time and far more intelligent and skilled with far more battle experience.

I think that Naruto was stronger than Sasuke at that time. Sasuke only caught upto Naruto after getting the Mangekyou sharingan from his battle with Itachi. Think about it for a moment, just before his battle with Itachi, Sasuke faced a lot of trouble beating Deidara who was nothing compared to Pain. So how can Naruto and Sasuke's strength be equal at that point.

[Koby]

Oh so I'm "the other guy" now Koby? So Harsh! (jkz)

I completely agree with everything that you said but I think you may be overestimating Jiraiya's imperfect sage mode powers. Jiriaya was almost killed by Naruto when he went 4-tailed for the first time (he's got the freakin' massive scar to prove it) and Pain was able to at least subdue but by no means defeat 6 tailed Naruto. As awesome as Jiraiya is I think that both Naruto and Pain could beat him at the time of their fight IMO.

Everything so said was spot on tho! XD

I'm not saying Jiraiya was more powerful. You don't have to be more powerful to win. It's all about the intel. If you know everything about your opponent you can exploit their weaknesses. Jiraiya was a master at intel gathering, and one of the most experienced ninja alive at up to his death. Intel alone can turn the tide of a battle.

[KaoclazmMJR]

For your information the Almighty push is like a one hit K/O move. Pain could have used it to kill Naruto at any point but his intention was to keep him alive. So, if he uses that move on Itachi, no matter how exhausted he might be, Itachi will be dead.

And about the Ninjutsu absorbing thing, Naruto mastered the Senjutsu not Itachi. So there will be no problem if Pain absorbs Itachi's jutsus.

The almighty push has never been shown to kill someone just from being hit by it, it usually brings them in close for an attack or smashes them into something but they were fighting in an open wasteland so that wouldn't have worked.

Oh and so pain's intention was to keep Naruto alive when he pulled him in and stabbed him in the stomach with his chakra blades (a fatal would had naruto not gone 6 on him) or when he buried him under millions of tons of rock? C'mon

I'm not saying Jiraiya was more powerful. You don't have to be more powerful to win. It's all about the intel. If you know everything about your opponent you can exploit their weaknesses. Jiraiya was a master at intel gathering, and one of the most experienced ninja alive at up to his death. Intel alone can turn the tide of a battle.

You make a valid point but still in a fight against 6 highly skilled ninja with no blindspots and access to all forms of ninjutsu including revival to say that Jiraiya might have won due to having superior intel is a bit of a stretch.

[Koby]

I think that Naruto was stronger than Sasuke at that time. Sasuke only caught upto Naruto after getting the Mangekyou sharingan from his battle with Itachi. Think about it for a moment, just before his battle with Itachi, Sasuke faced a lot of trouble beating Deidara who was nothing compared to Pain. So how can Naruto and Sasuke's strength be equal at that point.

Sasuke didn't have trouble with Deidara. He beat him easily. He was just not taking the fight seriously and was more or less letting Deidara do all his attacks before he went in for the defeat.

Sasuke's battle with Itachi came before Naruto's fight with Pain. However before Naruto learned Sage mode he had been weaker than Sasuke since the start of Shippuuden as shown with their first encounter around episode 54 or so. It was after Naruto got Sage mode that he finally caught up with Sasuke. In the manga though I'd say Naruto has now surpassed him in full colors unless they secretly handed Sasuke more powers he didn't earn again.

You make a valid point but still in a fight against 6 highly skilled ninja with no blindspots and access to all forms of ninjutsu including revival to say that Jiraiya might have won due to having superior intel is a bit of a stretch.

I don't think so. The main reason Naruto won in the end was because of the same information Jiraiya uncovered. Had Jiraiya had a chance to use it for his own benefit it would have likely meant game over for Pain. Or given such info Jiraiya would have likely opted to flee and find the real Pain if given the chance.

You kill the real Pain, you beat em all.

[KaoclazmMJR]

I don't think so. The main reason Naruto won in the end was because of the same information Jiraiya uncovered. Had Jiraiya had a chance to use it for his own benefit it would have likely meant game over for Pain. Or given such info Jiraiya would have likely opted to flee and find the real Pain if given the chance.

Fair enough Koby

I was going to disagree with you about the intel that "the real one is not among them" would have benefitted Jiriaya during the fight, however I agree with the point you made about him opting to flee instead of stay and fight.

[shyguysteve]

did any of you guys realize that Naruto reached 9 tails in the anime and was in the physical (hairless state) of the kyuubi form.

in his previous fights when going into a cloak mode he was so exhausted to the point of unconsciousness. But after reaching the point of almost near full body take over, he was still able to remain conscious and had enough remaining chakra to pull out rasengan.

doesn't that seem a little flawed to anyone?

Also that both Nagato and Itachi died in similar fashions. Sasuke and Naruto never delivered the final blow to kill either of them, they fell to exhaustion.

From my view Nagato and Itachi were actually equal to each other more ways then one, also in the manga

*SPOILERS* Nagato and Itachi were the ones sent together to eventually meet with Naruto and B. Nagato and Itachi were both resurrected of course so the scenes following their confrontation is a bit exaggerated because Kabuto took away Nagato's free thought, and made him incapable of reasoning or planning attacks with better precision.

[Drshulo02]

itachi would most likely dominate but id love to think pain would shred

Itachi's abilities are said to even be feared by madara who admits that would have killed him if not for his teleportation ninjutsu

[shyguysteve]

Itachi's abilities are said to even be feared by madara who admits that would have killed him if not for his teleportation ninjutsu

you talking about Tobi?

I don't remember him stating that any where but it could be true.

also the elder Madara in his prime compared to itachi in his prime, would be like fusing Nagato and Itachi. Madara had similar abilities that Itachi unlocked with just Mangekyo but Madara also had the Eternal. then later its revealed he also unlocks the Rinnegan and Wood release jutsu's.

[knightly02]

Pain, in the latest manga they reveal that the Sharingan evolves into the Rinnegan. That and Pain has more the ability to simply suck out your soul with a touch.

[Singuns]

pain ftw lol

[ireggae]

Itachi because he can have the rinnegan

[darez]

Itachi would destroy pain in a heart beat!! For sure

[Koby]

Itachi because he can have the rinnegan

and?

Pain already has it.

[KaoclazmMJR]

and?

Pain already has it.

[bouloss]

Given what has been shown in the manga...pain would win

[allnall93]

Oh and so pain's intention was to keep Naruto alive when he pulled him in and stabbed him in the stomach with his chakra blades (a fatal would had naruto not gone 6 on him) or when he buried him under millions of tons of rock? C'mon .

[KaoclazmMJR]

If pain wouldve killed hm then they wouldve lost the nine tails... so ya he had to keep him alive... that kinda obvious to me no offense

None taken

As important as it was to keep the nine tails jinchuuriki alive I don't think that it was more important to pain than his own survival, therfore, when he was getting completely owned by naruto he had to try and kill him because he did not have the skill to simply subdue him.

Stabbing someone near their vital organs and especially something as overkill as chibaku tensei just seemed like a last ditch kill effort to me (even though in principle, yes, pain would most definately want Naruto kept alive).