Itachi vs Pain

[Vagrant]

I would say Itachi by a thread. It would be an epic fight who ever was the victor.

[ruekk]

no doubt pain would win.

[Koby]

no doubt pain would win.

After thinking more about this. I actually would think Itachi would win with little effort required. He's extremely powerful and gifted. He mentions if he were to fight Jiraiya it'd likely end in a draw and Jiraiya was shown to be more powerful than Pain. The only reason he lost was because he had no info on Pain so he was more or less scouting his abilities and he figured them out too late to counter. That's where Itachi and Jiraiya differ. Itachi would likely already know Pain's ability having been part of the Akatsuki all those years thus it would be straight down to business and exploiting Pain's weaknesses.

Also remember... Pain was pretty much was controlled by Tobi and his Rinnegan was somehow given to him by Tobi, or at least that's what Tobi claims. So Tobi clearly isn't scared of his capabilities. However Tobi was afraid to do anything against Itachi while Itachi was alive (even while Itachi was sick and dying). He waited till Itachi's death to finally step up and take action. So again, just from Tobi's reaction to Pain and Itachi.. it's clear who is regarded superior.

Then what about Kabuto's ability? Itachi seems to more or less broke free of it and is doing whatever he wants from what I've been told. However Pain was unable to or simply hasn't done so or whatever. I don't read the manga so this is all just from what I've heard.

No matter how you look at it.. Pain wouldn't stand a chance if you actually bothered to think about everything.

[shyguysteve]

to many assumptions on this subject.

a lot of people are either bringing itachi to his full health or leaving pain at his most dire.

nagato vs itachi both without their diseases at top condition nagato dominates completely.

1. nagato's eyes hold no risks, itachi's eyes are only a branch off of his own and leave him weakened and bring him closer to blindness.

2. nagato while under the teachings of jiraiya didnt just learn all chakra natures but mastered them.

3. what has been seen of nagato is only the tip of the ice berg, since so much has happened to him his full abilities have been under detailed. a lot of it based off of the comments jiraiya thought to himself while teaching young nagato.

4. madara didnt fear itachi madara is a master mind and used both nagato and itachi all for his own desire, although speculations suggest he feared itachi it was all for not, he wanted sasuke since itachi was already aware of his plans.

5. while both nagato and itachi both said they would lose to jiraiya even if kisame was with itachi pain still beat him fair or not the student killed the master.

but i will say this for the two visual jutsu users, only itachi used his eyes to the full extent nagato didnt appear to use it for much more then to read chakra. but both did have immense talent to be able to what they did while they lived.

[balex898]

pain is way better !!

[Koby]

to many assumptions on this subject.

a lot of people are either bringing itachi to his full health or leaving pain at his most dire.

nagato vs itachi both without their diseases at top condition nagato dominates completely.

1. nagato's eyes hold no risks, itachi's eyes are only a branch off of his own and leave him weakened and bring him closer to blindness.

2. nagato while under the teachings of jiraiya didnt just learn all chakra natures but mastered them.

3. what has been seen of nagato is only the tip of the ice berg, since so much has happened to him his full abilities have been under detailed. a lot of it based off of the comments jiraiya thought to himself while teaching young nagato.

4. madara didnt fear itachi madara is a master mind and used both nagato and itachi all for his own desire, although speculations suggest he feared itachi it was all for not, he wanted sasuke since itachi was already aware of his plans.

5. while both nagato and itachi both said they would lose to jiraiya even if kisame was with itachi pain still beat him fair or not the student killed the master.

but i will say this for the two visual jutsu users, only itachi used his eyes to the full extent nagato didnt appear to use it for much more then to read chakra. but both did have immense talent to be able to what they did while they lived.

1. According to Tobi.. Nagato had his eyes given to him.

2. Whats this got to do with Itachi kicking his ass?

3. and...? It's the same thing with Itachi.

4. You're completely wrong on this part. Especially since Tobi likely is not Madara either.

5. Again using points that mean nothing in the end game to justify poor reasoning.

If both were at full health Itachi would still win. Read my last post (right above yours) for more clarification.

Sasuke isn't even in the same league as Itachi was.. and even Sasuke could dominate Pain now. Pain's major advantage over his opponents was that they didn't know how his ability worked. With that out of the way he isn't nearly as capable as they made him out to seem.

[shyguysteve]

1. According to Tobi.. Nagato had his eyes given to him.

2. Whats this got to do with Itachi kicking his ass?

3. and...? It's the same thing with Itachi.

4. You're completely wrong on this part. Especially since Tobi likely is not Madara either.

5. Again using points that mean nothing in the end game to justify poor reasoning.

If both were at full health Itachi would still win. Read my last post (right above yours) for more clarification.

Sasuke isn't even in the same league as Itachi was.. and even Sasuke could dominate Pain now. Pain's major advantage over his opponents was that they didn't know how his ability worked. With that out of the way he isn't nearly as capable as they made him out to seem.

im talking an entirely different ball game, nagato without his six paths. as in his top condition without sickness or a handicap.

and i only brought up those details people over look, itachi is more popular so no one cares to think about them.

tobi is madara that much should be known by anyone who follows the series. also founder of the hidden mist.

my main objective for my previous post was that nagato is no push over and itachi although gifted for his clan is nothing more then simply talented.

both were just pawns but pain is stronger, besides off appearances alone people favor itachi.

so why does that constitute fare reasoning?

in any case madara/tobi only hints at a lot of things reading back or even googling his conversations with a number of people in the series he hints at numerous un-yet proven issues.

besides that nagato has the better gifts and talent, eye for eye nagato wins.

again i say hand to hand itachi is better but it takes more then just being good at one thing if your opponent is highly skilled at everything else even more then yourself.

but to your main point of saying madara wouldnt cross itachi is just speculation.

madara had nothing to fear from itachi, and again a very key point why he didnt was because he wanted the last uchiha member if he had killed itachi the orochimarus curse would still be in affect cause complications down the road for him.

that aside take whats known about nagato and itachi and really compare.

move for move they do block each other itachi is faster more physical strength.

but nagato has larger amounts of chakra more jutsu at his command.

they both posses spirit type weapons as far i've read into nagatos death giant or whatever.

but the simple fact is nagato wins.

another detail over looked is we've seen itachi through out the entire series

repeating the same trace of his power while nagato only seen a handful of times in combat leaves little to actually go on.

however i bring these details to the surface to give anyone who bothers to read better reasoning.

but it doesnt take much thought to consider if all the six paths were rolled up into one body (nagato's) then there is no foe who could even touch that god.

[Koby]

tobi is madara that much should be known by anyone who follows the series. also founder of the hidden mist.

No. Madara was resurrected by Kabuto. Guess you don't follow the series which would explain why all your other points have not been correct either.

[shyguysteve]

No. Madara was resurrected by Kabuto. Guess you don't follow the series which would explain why all your other points have not been correct either.

well i actually havent either way the questions answer belongs to the creator.

i dont much care itachi or pain there talent is to far fetched.

however then what i say about madara and tobi wouldnt be correct everything else about the two would be accurate.

at the same time my point of view, everyone picks the attractive individual.

though you only commented on part of the subject thats not really apart of the main argument.

tobi or madara the point still stands what he's done and accomplished.

and still should nagato be only one body with all paths strengths rolled into him, no one could mess with him.

[Koby]

still should nagato be only one body with all paths strengths rolled into him, no one could mess with him.

But does Nagato actually have ALL of those abilities to use from his real body when he isn't controlling dead bodies? I don't recall if that was ever stated to be factual or not. I would assume even if he could.. the numbers far outweigh the advantage given from them all being in one body. Overwhelming the opponent with numbers is/was one of Pains greatest abilities and a good reason as to why he used his powers as he did. I honestly don't think even in his 'so called prime' that he was that much stronger than he was displayed as when he fought with Naruto and lost.

Remember this. At this point it's stated that Naruto vs. Sasuke would likely end in a draw. Well Sasuke actually lost to Itachi even though Itachi was blind, sick, and dying. Sasuke hasn't really gotten any stronger since his fight with Itachi aside from gaining Itachi's eyes and some new abilities from Itachi which he used to take down Danzo. So if Sasuke and Naruto are at a draw.. but Itachi was stronger than even what Sasuke is now and Naruto beat Pain... then that would lead to the conclusion that both Sasuke and Itachi are/were stronger than Pain given the state that both Itachi and Pain were in.

As to how they were in their prime.. we may never know.. but as to how they were at that point in the story.. Itachi definitely had the upper hand.

[shyguysteve]

But does Nagato actually have ALL of those abilities to use from his real body when he isn't controlling dead bodies? I don't recall if that was ever stated to be factual or not. I would assume even if he could.. the numbers far outweigh the advantage given from them all being in one body. Overwhelming the opponent with numbers is/was one of Pains greatest abilities and a good reason as to why he used his powers as he did. I honestly don't think even in his 'so called prime' that he was that much stronger than he was displayed as when he fought with Naruto and lost.

Remember this. At this point it's stated that Naruto vs. Sasuke would likely end in a draw. Well Sasuke actually lost to Itachi even though Itachi was blind, sick, and dying. Sasuke hasn't really gotten any stronger since his fight with Itachi aside from gaining Itachi's eyes and some new abilities from Itachi which he used to take down Danzo. So if Sasuke and Naruto are at a draw.. but Itachi was stronger than even what Sasuke is now and Naruto beat Pain... then that would lead to the conclusion that both Sasuke and Itachi are/were stronger than Pain given the state that both Itachi and Pain were in.

As to how they were in their prime.. we may never know.. but as to how they were at that point in the story.. Itachi definitely had the upper hand.

this is a better constructed response, i accept nagatos strength of one body possessing all ability of the six including him self is neither here nor there.

but thats the fun of imagining it, since there is so little about nagato and so much about itachi.

itachi just has the appeal on his side.

and both as seen at young ages would grow into formidable ninja without limits both died in unappealing plot to gain control of sasuke and damage konoha.

that much is bs to me

but the part you bring up about sasuke and naruto is something to consider but naruto didnt beat all the paths, nor beat nagato he only convinced him other wise of his plans and died the same way itachi did, from exhaust and disease.

so from that would they still be a draw in the series?

interesting development im just now reading about itachi and nagato being revived and fighting against B. and naruto.

i guess to my point before nagato could have had all abilities in his own body, amusing.

i guess nagato is much better then i thought with this in mind not only is he able to have all ability but even push off the black flames itachi sets on him.

but itachi does seal him away, but thats not so much nagato losing then kabuto being a prick.

[Statik Kage]

ithink Itachi hands down , imean if he was healthy , Pain against Susanoo :L deff Itachi :L

[vcxz]

I see after lengthy discussions some people have mentioned that this fight has already happened, however with conditions as mentioned by Koby and shyguysteve just to name a few.

For those of you who read the manga

Chapters 551/552 will show you the result of the fight. Nagato with all six path powers (basically all pains combined) but being controlled by Kabuto Yakushi vs. Resurrected Itachi (don't know if he's 100%)

As I said in the Which is your favorite Sasuke Or Itachi? thread

Older brother wins! So caring, so uber, soooooooooo hotttt:beauty:

[kohow38]

pain will win

[shyguysteve]

ithink Itachi hands down , imean if he was healthy , Pain against Susanoo :L deff Itachi :L

o.o

you know they both had a handicap or two, being sick or crippled or going blind. If they were both 'healthy' it'd still be a fight of stamina and its still a toss up >"<

[saminyt]

That time Itachi was free from control and he along with Naruto(Qyuubi mode) and Killer Bi were fighting together against Nagato(Pain). There you can clearly see that Nagato could handle himself well against all three of them. So it is clear that if it is a one on one between him and Itachi, he could crush Itachi.

Let me give you another clear demonstration. Itachi with all his powers clearly stated that he and Jiraiya were on the same level. On the other hand, Pain defeated him with just his six paths. And don't forget the the six paths of pain even together are weaker than the original one. So if say Nagato wasn't crippled and Itachi was given eternal Mangekyou, Itachi would still lose.

[Koby]

That time Itachi was free from control and he along with Naruto(Qyuubi mode) and Killer Bi were fighting together against Nagato(Pain). There you can clearly see that Nagato could handle himself well against all three of them. So it is clear that if it is a one on one between him and Itachi, he could crush Itachi.

Let me give you another clear demonstration. Itachi with all his powers clearly stated that he and Jiraiya were on the same level. On the other hand, Pain defeated him with just his six paths. And don't forget the the six paths of pain even together are weaker than the original one. So if say Nagato wasn't crippled and Itachi was given eternal Mangekyou, Itachi would still lose.

For one thing... at the time of Itachi's comparison both he and Pain was sick and dying. That doesn't mean just because Pain may or may not be stronger at that time that he'd be in the same predicament if both were healthy.

Also the point of Itachi and Jiraiya being equals but Jiraiya losing to Pain doesn't prove anything at all. After all to beat Pain you must know about him. That was his biggest advantage. Had Jiraiya been able to fight full force from the beginning instead of just gathering intel the fight would have had a different outcome.

Itachi likely knew about Pain's technique, which would already put them on a more level playing field.

[KaoclazmMJR]

I agree that Itachi would win (if not sick). It has been shown that Sasuke is on a similar level of power to Naruto (who beat Pain) and Itachi dominated Sasuke in their fight at the Uchiha hideout while he was minutes from death. Granted Sasuke would not be at all comparable to Naruto without the skills that Itachi gave him.

[saminyt]

I agree that Itachi would win (if not sick). It has been shown that Sasuke is on a similar level of power to Naruto (who beat Pain) and Itachi dominated Sasuke in their fight at the Uchiha hideout while he was minutes from death. Granted Sasuke would not be at all comparable to Naruto without the skills that Itachi gave him.

Sasuke didn't win against Itachi. Itachi died from overusing the Mangekyou and his disease thing. And also, Naruto would have also lost to Pain if it wasn't for him turning into the Kyuubi tails. So that logic doesn't add up here.

For one thing... at the time of Itachi's comparison both he and Pain was sick and dying. That doesn't mean just because Pain may or may not be stronger at that time that he'd be in the same predicament if both were healthy.

Also the point of Itachi and Jiraiya being equals but Jiraiya losing to Pain doesn't prove anything at all. After all to beat Pain you must know about him. That was his biggest advantage. Had Jiraiya been able to fight full force from the beginning instead of just gathering intel the fight would have had a different outcome.

Itachi likely knew about Pain's technique, which would already put them on a more level playing field.

Fine then let us see from another perspective like a battle simulation.

Itachi's amaterasu and Susanoo are his strongest moves right. These are useless against Nagato coz he can absorb Ninjutsu. And if you talk about devestating moves, then the three moves that the Deva path showed(Universal push, Gravitational pull and Planetary destruction) are stronger than Susanoo. I agree that Itachi is faster and more skilled in taijutsu and genjutsu but against these three attacks, he wouldn't stand a chance.

Against Jiraiya, Pain didn't actually show his true powers. His animal path and the ninjutsu absorbing path were the only ones in action. So even if Jiraiya knew the secret, the outcome would have been the same.

Let me give another logic. Suppose, Sharingan is like Super Saiyan from DBZ. In that logic, Mangekyou would be Super Saiyan 2 AND Rinnegan would be Super Saiyan 3. SO how can Super Saiyan 3 lose to Super Saiyan 2?

The deva path destroyed the whole konoha with a single attack. Tell me what attack of Itachi can stop him?

[KaoclazmMJR]

Sasuke didn't win against Itachi. Itachi died from overusing the Mangekyou and his disease thing. And also, Naruto would have also lost to Pain if it wasn't for him turning into the Kyuubi tails. So that logic doesn't add up here.

When did I ever say that Sasuke won against Itachi? In fact I said that Itachi demolished Sasuke, the reason I say that sasuke and naruto are comparable in power is because of the powers Sasuke got from Itachi. Honestly read the whole statement before you shoot it down.

Oh and just because Naruto had to go 8 tails to beat Pain means he shouldn't have beaten him? Well here's a heads up for you if Naruto never used the Kyubi's power to win a fight he would have been killed by Haku at the start of the series (and pretty much every other major villian he fought) and the series would be about just Choji or something. Geez

Fine then let us see from another perspective like a battle simulation.

Itachi's amaterasu and Susanoo are his strongest moves right. These are useless against Nagato coz he can absorb Ninjutsu. And if you talk about devestating moves, then the three moves that the Deva path showed(Universal push, Gravitational pull and Planetary destruction) are stronger than Susanoo. I agree that Itachi is faster and more skilled in taijutsu and genjutsu but against these three attacks, he wouldn't stand a chance.

The deva path destroyed the whole konoha with a single attack. Tell me what attack of Itachi can stop him?

Ya and look how well that ability to absorb ninjiutsu worked out for him against Naruto, all Naruto had to do was beat the sh** out of the fat pain with like one punch which Itachi would be more than capable of doing.

Fine then let us see from another perspective like a battle simulation.

Itachi's amaterasu and Susanoo are his strongest moves right. These are useless against Nagato coz he can absorb Ninjutsu. And if you talk about devestating moves, then the three moves that the Deva path showed(Universal push, Gravitational pull and Planetary destruction) are stronger than Susanoo. I agree that Itachi is faster and more skilled in taijutsu and genjutsu but against these three attacks, he wouldn't stand a chance.

Against Jiraiya, Pain didn't actually show his true powers. His animal path and the ninjutsu absorbing path were the only ones in action. So even if Jiraiya knew the secret, the outcome would have been the same.

The deva path destroyed the whole konoha with a single attack. Tell me what attack of Itachi can stop him?

Oh ya and chibaku tensei would work great right cause its not like using it exhausted him to the point of literal death. After Itachi took out the fat pain with pure taijutsu (of which he is a master as he can probably open the gates given that even kakashi can do it) and after he took out the revival pain with an amaterasu or something then he would just go susannoo and own the whole fight.