[Ruling] Yu-Gi-Oh! - A 'Solemn Warning' ruling you might not know.

[Koby]

Okay... attention to all netdeckers, quitters and ragequitters, gotta make this official so I don't wasting my time giving explaination over and over and over and over and over again and in the end you still doesn't accept it and quit after I explaing it, which is time consuming, and you won't believe until I post some links with some discussion AND NOT BEING ACCUSED AS VIRUS LINK and I don't have tell you guys everytime to ask in chat room:

You can NOT negate monster that summoned by other card effect with solemn warning

• (Of Course similiar rulings also will applies for Polymerization, Future Fusion, Instant Fusion, etc.... and RITUALS) and MONSTER REBORN / Call of the Hauntedand any other more similiar card(s)
  
  It will miss the timing if you trying to negate the summon monster, you have to negate the spell/traps itself, not monster
  

You cannot negate the Fusion Summon, you must negate Miracle Fusion. Miracle Fusion removes the Fusion materials at resolution, so if you negate it with Solemn Warning, the monsters are not removed from play and the Fusion monster is not Summoned.

Look at this case:

If a active miracle fusion and ask my opponent for response and he does nothing and then I summon my monster will he be able to active solemn warning now or did he missed his chance because my monster came from a card effect and he didnt negate it?

The answer is : NO He won't able to use Solemn Warnings

• WHY ?
  Because : He missed his chance. It's an Activation Effect, which "Solemn Warning" should prevent, not Timing Summoning - like your "then 1 summ0n mah monster will h3 b3 able to active solemn warn-ing now" point.
  In long story short, he missed his chance due to you had already play the plan. To make it correct, he should Warning your "Miracle Fusion" from start.
  

:evil:

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and by unrelated case but similiar, with same reasons :

THUNDER KING Rai-Ou / Black Horn or even SOLEMN JUDGEMENT also can NOT negate summon by other card effect

4.11 How to properly negate a Special Summon

Much people still don't know how to properly negate a Special Summon. I hope to be able to clear up things here.

First of all, the summoning procedure. Lets say, you want to Special Summon "Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon. First, pay the cost (banish a face up Dragon), then the player attempts to place it on the field. Before actually hitting the field there is this... I'll call it "summon negation window". Cards like both "Solemn Warning" and "Solemn Judgment" as well as "Royal Oppression" can be activated here. Now if your opponent does not wish to activate anything in this window, your monster is considered to be Special Summoned successfully.

Note that a monster which summon is negated has never hit the field. So cards like Tengu don't get their effects. Any "special summon only monster" (monsters with the term "This card can't be normal summoned or set. This card can only be special summoned by [...]") and anything from the extra deck can't be special summoned from the grave.

When a Special Summon through an effect occurs (such as a Special Summon resulting from the resolution of "Monster Reborn" or the effect of a resolving "Plaguespreader Zombie") the effect is activated and the costs are paid. Then, when it finished resolving the monster is successfully Special Summoned. Note, that the "summon negation window" can't be used here, because when the effect finished resolving the monster is already Special Summoned successfully. That window takes place in the middle of the resolution of a chain, you can not activate anything as a chain is trying to resolve. You must negate the activation of the card the effect comes that the summon will be resolving from.

So, what does this mean regarding some cards?

• "Solemn Judgment" as well as "Thunder King Rai-Oh" and similar cards can not be used to negate effects that Special Summon (such as "Gorz, the Emissary of Darkness"). The best thing "Solemn Judgment" can do is negate a Spell/Trap that Special Summons.
  
• Cards such as "Solemn Warning" and "Royal Oppression" also can negate effects that Special Summon, but they actually must use it on the effect. Once an effect begins resolving it is too late to negate the summon resolving from that card.
  Now you might ask: How do I differ a inherent Special Summon from a Special Summon with an effect? Take these steps:
  
  • 1) If the monster is Xyz/Synchro Summoned (not with the effect of "Formula Synchron"!) or Special summoned only in the Main Phase due to a way written on its card text it is inherently Special Summoned.
    1a) The one and only exception here is "Dark Simorgh" whose Special Summon is treated as an ignition effect for some strange reason... most probably BKSS.
    1b) For those who ask, you can also tell that something like Meklords or TG Warwolf is a trigger by looking at those card texts (they also could be summoned in a phase other than main).
    2) If a monster from point 1 has also the ability to Special Summon itself from the Graveyard (such as "Machina Fortress") it is still considered an inherent Special Summon.
    3) If a monster can be Special Summoned from the Graveyard/Banished zone by a way written on its text (like "Plaguespreader Zombie") it is an effect Special Summon.
    3a) The only exception to this is Grapha whose ss from the grave is ruled as an inherent Special Summon.
    4) Ritual/Fusion Summons (except Contact Fusion) all occur due to a card effect (the Ritual Spell/Fusion Card). Note, that none of those cards have a cost regarding Ritual/Fusion materials, so if the effect is negated nothing is sent to the grave.
    

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UPDATE: 14 Aug 2011 7:00 AM

You can NOT use solemn warning on Fusion Gate activation

Similiarly as, you can NOT Solemn Warning on Valhalla, Call of the Mummy, etc... activation

Q: But why can't Solemn Warning negate Fusion Gate itself? I thought Fusion Gate is like Miracle Fusion, an effect that special summons monster(s)

• A: It's because when you first activate Fusion Gate (place it face-up), it does not perform a Special Summon. This is the only time in which you can respond with Solemn Warning, but you fail to meet Warning's requirement. After that, it's too late.
  
  Solemn Warning cannot negate the effects of already face up spell or traps, it would have to negate the initial activation however Fusion Gate does not perform a special summon when it is initially activated.
  

Dont confuse it with ROYAL OPRESSION

Q: What about FUTURE FUSION then ?

5.11 Future Fusion

Link: Ruling FAQ - Clearing up the most confusable rulings 5.11

• Many of you might ask something like "can I use Warning on Future Fusion since it doesn't summon right away or it is the same as with "Infernity Launcher"?" or other Questions like that. Well, let me clear that up:
  
  • You can activate Oppression/Warning in chain to Future Fusions initial activation. The special summon does not start a chain, so you can't activate Oppression in the 2nd Standby Phase to negate it.
    

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UPDATE: 15 Aug 2011 14:00

Q: How About in case a special summon monster summoned via other monster effect like Gravekeeper's Spy, Mystic Tomato, and any Gladiator Beasts ?

A: Same shit... it will miss the chance if you warning the summoned monster via other card effect. The only monster that you can warning is an Inherit summon itself (not by other card effect) like SYNCRO MONSTERS, XYZ monsters, Cyber Dragon, Gorz, Tragodeia, etc...

You can safely use solemn warning those kind of Inherit special summon monsters (but not Rituals or Fusion summon monster itself, you have to negate the spell/trap card(s) not the monster)

++++++++++++++++++

In the end, anyone who said SOLEMN WARNING can NEGATE FUSION SUMMON MONSTER, should be questioned their knowledge again, even it was a mod

(to be truth, I have lots time mods giving wrong rulings, I am not sure if they really know rulings or not ?)

Figured this would be helpful as many people I've dueled seem to not really get the concept of the key of timing.

[salmun]

so if i special summon stardust from the grave yard my opponent can't negate it?

[Seabs]

This seems like a huge semantic argument, but it is a valid one. I just get annoyed how solemn warning can be used against macros cosmos, even if I only use macro for the removal effect, and not the helios spec summon thing.

[evils200]

This is helpful. I appreciate your work.

[shyguysteve]

would that be why they made "solemn's judgement"? its a similar card but its 2000 LP cost and negates the effects of spell/traps cards that would specifically let your opponent "summon" monster and also negates their monster would be normal summon.

out of the two I like judgement more.

[Koby]

would that be why they made "solemn's judgement"? its a similar card but its 2000 LP cost and negates the effects of spell/traps cards that would specifically let your opponent "summon" monster and also negates their monster would be normal summon.

out of the two I like judgement more.

No. Judgment is an old card. Also you have the whole effects totally wrong.

Solemn Warning: When a monster would be Summoned, OR when a Spell Card, Trap Card or Effect Monster's effect is activated that includes an effect that Special Summons a monster(s): Pay 2000 Life Points; negate the Summon OR activation, and destroy that card.

Solemn Judgment: Pay half of your Life Points. Negate an activation of a Spell / Trap Card / Normal Summon / Flip Summon / Special Summon and destroy the Spell Card, Trap Card, or Summoned monster.

[shyguysteve]

No. Judgment is an old card. Also you have the whole effects totally wrong.

Solemn Warning: When a monster would be Summoned, OR when a Spell Card, Trap Card or Effect Monster's effect is activated that includes an effect that Special Summons a monster(s): Pay 2000 Life Points; negate the Summon OR activation, and destroy that card.

Solemn Judgment: Pay half of your Life Points. Negate an activation of a Spell / Trap Card / Normal Summon / Flip Summon / Special Summon and destroy the Spell Card, Trap Card, or Summoned monster.

then I just have the card name mixed up, I rather have the new one. but you get my view.

[Koby]

then I just have the card name mixed up, I rather have the new one. but you get my view.

The difference is Judgment can be used no matter what your LP is at. If it's 1000 you only lose 500, if it's 8000 you lose 4000. However Warning if you have less than 2000 LP then it becomes unusable. At the same time Judgment can negate spells and traps as well and they don't have to be specifically just to summon, while Warning is specifically only to stop a summoning. They each have their own uses and their own cons/pros of having them in your deck. I often carry both either in the deck or at least in my side deck for match plays when needed.

[shyguysteve]

The difference is Judgment can be used no matter what your LP is at. If it's 1000 you only lose 500, if it's 8000 you lose 4000. However Warning if you have less than 2000 LP then it becomes unusable. At the same time Judgment can negate spells and traps as well and they don't have to be specifically just to summon, while Warning is specifically only to stop a summoning. They each have their own uses and their own cons/pros of having them in your deck. I often carry both either in the deck or at least in my side deck for match plays when needed.

I agree, but in most of my duels lately with a small 40 card build drawing the trap is much faster, so paying a small 2k is better then half. thats why I'd rather have warning.

but on the topic warning doesn't negate fusion, ritual or synchro summons, yeah? only the normal summon or cards/effects that allow special summons? I'd call that a link summon.

[Koby]

but on the topic warning doesn't negate fusion, ritual or synchro summons, yeah? only the normal summon or cards/effects that allow special summons? I'd call that a link summon.

If you had bothered to read the first post you'd know the answer to that.

Warning doesn't negate those, but it can negate the card that does it. For example it cannot negate the fusion summon of Cyber End Dragon, however it can negate Polymerization which is the card that caused the summoning. Same with rituals, you negate the ritual spell card and not the actual monster.

However there is this too:

Solemn Warning cannot negate the effects of already face up spell or traps, it would have to negate the initial activation however Fusion Gate does not perform a special summon when it is initially activated.

[shyguysteve]

If you had bothered to read the first post you'd know the answer to that.

Warning doesn't negate those, but it can negate the card that does it. For example it cannot negate the fusion summon of Cyber End Dragon, however it can negate Polymerization which is the card that caused the summoning. Same with rituals, you negate the ritual spell card and not the actual monster.

However there is this too:

Solemn Warning cannot negate the effects of already face up spell or traps, it would have to negate the initial activation however Fusion Gate does not perform a special summon when it is initially activated.

well then yeah I already knew all that, I just didn't know where you were going with it on the initial post, you just summed up the whole topic in a few lines and I wasn't gonna squint my eyes just to learn what I already knew.

so pretty much another timing error if people activate on the monsters summon then the spell/trap activation.

[sharingunneji]

Thank you for putting this together. Nice work, so many people try to negate it after the fusion or something is already completed and not the card special summoning it.

[DarkDream787]

Solemn warning says pay 2000 life points to negate the summon of a monster.

heres a timing question that might help others out.

If they wish to do a summon that requires 2 tributes, and the opponent activates solemn warning, does it stop the summon after they have made their 2 tributes to summon thier monster or before they get the chance to tribute any of their monsters?

I would think the negation is after they tribute their monsters and pay the summoning fee then it gets negated by solemn warning.

Edited October 31, 2012 by DarkDream787

[Koby]

Solemn warning says pay 2000 life points to negate the summon of a monster.

heres a timing question that might help others out.

If they wish to do a summon that requires 2 tributes, and the opponent activates solemn warning, does it stop the summon after they have made their 2 tributes to summon thier monster or before they get the chance to tribute any of their monsters?

I would think the negation is after they tribute their monsters and pay the summoning fee then it gets negated by solemn warning.

Tributing is a cost. You pay the cost before being able to summon. Therefore you tribute your two monsters, then try to summon a monster, Solemn Warning activates and negates the summon.

[DarkDream787]

Solemn warning says pay 2000 life points to negate the summon of a monster.

heres a timing question that might help others out.

If they wish to do a summon that requires 2 tributes, and the opponent activates solemn warning, does it stop the summon after they have made their 2 tributes to summon thier monster or before they get the chance to tribute any of their monsters?

I would think the negation is after they tribute their monsters and pay the summoning fee then it gets negated by solemn warning.

Tributing is a cost. You pay the cost before being able to summon. Therefore you tribute your two monsters, then try to summon a monster, Solemn Warning activates and negates the summon.

Yeah, its just that Ive seen players say they shouldnt lose their 1-2 monsters they were going to tribute because it negated them being able to summon and because it stopped them from summoning they didnt get to tribute their monsters and thus dont lose them.

I just wanted to help clear that up so it doesnt happen.