do you believe aliens created us

[DuLake]

@Dulake: Qur'an is the word of God. God challenges humans if you think that Qur'an is not the word of God then make one chapter that can resemble a chapter from Qur'an. Till dat no one has ever made a chapter like that.

Okay dude, you have got to start explaining yourself better. You're really confusing me here. I think I get the gist of it, but please start going back through your messages before you post them to make sure it's clear what you're trying to say.

Because I'm a bit confused about what you're trying to say here, I'm going to try to summarize what points I think you're trying to make. If I am wrong, and you did not make these claims, I apologize and would appreciate clarification.

1) There is a deity.

2) That deity is the one expressed in the Qur'an.

3) The Qur'an is the expressed will of your deity.

4) As the expressed will of your deity, the Qur'an is better than anything a human could write.

5) Nobody could replicate the wisdom of the Qur'an.

My responses:

1) You have not shown any evidence of the existence of a deity.

2) You have not shown any evidence of the existence of a deity, the one expressed by the Qur'an or any other holy book.

3) You have not shown any evidence of a deity, and if there if no deity exists, then it is safe to assume that a deity did not write the Qur'an (or any other holy book for that matter).

4) Again, I've seen no evidence that there is a deity to have written the Qur'an.

5) This is complete speculation, but I'll admit that it would be difficult for two people to write something so similar (though not impossible). That said, you're assuming that the Qur'an is the perfect book to live your life by, but, while I'm sure there are some good principles in it, that is hardly a consensus belief and, in fact, every religion makes the same claim about their own holy book. Why should I believe yours is any better than the Bible or a book about the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I feel like I should take the time to explain my position. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't practice Islam, or Christianity, or any other religion. If you need religion to live a complete life, then I'm happy that you found a religion that completes you, but don't assume that your choice is the right one for the rest of us too. The truth is, there are innumerable religions out there and none of them have any proof, and if you're serious about your religion you shouldn't need any. At the same time though, extend the rest of us the courtesy of making our own choice, because at the end of the day we're all just kind of doing what we think is right, and have no real way of knowing if we're actually right or not.

Also, as Naito said, this isn't really the right place for this, but it's starting to look like this could fit in a number of other topics we have ("Your Views On Religion?" in particular), so I would gladly discuss this further in that topic, but we should probably cease and desist discussing religion here for Naito's sake.

Another also, I checked through the topic and you've actually never posted your beliefs Naito. Are you still going to do that?

[salmun]

to the origional question, I think theirs a better chance there being a lockness monster, its just another big fish like the whale, the oceans big enough and so is the universe, aliens exist? why not the universe is big enough, but I'm not going to believe they created us.

plus weather we believe God exists or not it really doesn't make him disappear or appear (it doesn't change anything)

[† Anras Rune]

wow...I leave for a weeks holid and come back to this...

First, wtf is up with that link. The guys speaks more crap than my auntie when shes pissed...-.- There is no direct reference to the world being flat or round in any holy book revolving around singular dieties. The bible never makes referance to that world being flat, it was the assumption of people at the time (priests and what not) who also believed because we were the most important of God's creations that were lay in the centre of the Universe. A fallacy that is also in teh original versions of the Qu'ran. To prove my point, many pre-Christian/Islamic/Jewish religions acknowledge that they KNOW the world is spherical. One such example is Zoroatism.

To the Big Bang part, it kinda shows the ignorance of people's knowledge on the subject. The BBT (Big Bang Theory) has so much conclusive evidence that it could be made a law of physics. The only reason it isnt is due to the impossibility of definatly saying that it is the origin of the Universe, yet there is ACUTAL EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE unlike with teh Creation theories and what not. Until someone comes along with a logical, and conclusive counter theory it will be regarded as the norm. I ask two things to all nay sayers... 1- Does any religion known to man accuratly calculate the age of the Universe and 2- Have you any knowledge of physics...

As to naito, technically this is still alien discussion as the idea of God is somewhat alien to us. If he was real then the magnitude of his presence would still be alien to us. Just not in the sense we originally started discussing. Also, as DuLake said, we still have to see your opinions on the matter. Also, speaking of DuLake, thanks for the mention. Glad to see my knowledge in physics is acknowledged by someone....lol

[DuLake]

Good to see you back, Rune, I was wondering where you'd disappeared to.

[Catwoman]

To be honest, I don't believe in any form of God. Before someone says "the question isn't about weither you believe in God or not", well, what is a god? Some being that created us? Some being that gave us life and purpose? A universe or world? So in a way, I see this question being... do you think aliens are our creators? Our Gods? I do believe in spirits but I'm uncertain of if there really was a creator to our universe, world or race. I believe in chance so I'm more in favor of the big bang theory. However, the way I think is... I won't know until I die. Maybe when I do, I'll get the answers I've been seeking. If lucky, I might find them before then. Until that day, I'm going to live life to the fullest and treat others as I would like to be treated. (I'm not sure if aliens exist but I think I had an experiance as a child so I'm even unsure about them)

[Bakura427]

I do not believe aliens created us. Sorry, it is plain wierd

[Ulquiorra]

Aliens are out there! God did not create just us Humans for one Earth in that never ending universe. There must be billions of planets like ours that are much more bigger or smaller and the speeches look different than us of course.

[spidey5443]

@Dulake: Did you know we(Muslims) are more christians than christians themselves?:

Even Bible is/was the word of the God before it was changed(<-I didn't wanted to go into that matter that's why I didn't say anything about bible) by people. But, in Qur'an God challenges that no one can write a one single chapter that could resemble a chapter from the Qur'an. You should try to read the Qur'an you will see how it is written.

And I'm not asking you to enter Islam or anything. I was just saying what I believe in.

Here's an example: I slapped you and now I would like to ask you "Can you give me the proof that you got hurt??" By that I mean God cannot be concieved but perceived.

And no we don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster's book. We only believe in God, god's word that are books like bible and Qur'an and in all the prophets of God.

And btw, Qur'an doesn't say anything...it's God who is saying everything. Qur'an is God's word. Get it?

Hope, I answered your questions....it's just that I don't like debating...I just like to drop my say and leave but your views kind of made me interested and that is why I sticked to replying you back. Cuz you said you were a guy who researches.

@Anras: Try to respect people and their opinion. If you didn't liked how he said it, try to just say what you didn't understand, don't try to insult them.

And no I don't believe that aliens created humans.

My final say: Quran is the proof of ALLAH the creator, the sovereign, the only one worthy of worship the sustainer of all the worlds, universe and things which we know and that we do not know and the space, time , dimensions that are yet to be discovered by man. Now, a question arises how is Quran the proof of ALLAH. The answer to this question is ALLAH challenges in Quran to whole of humanity, mankind and other beings to come together and create one chapter that can resemble a chapter from the Quran. A human being or any other being except ALLAH cannot challenge in this manner. Ex: Adam smith's (mathematician , father of modern economics) theory was defied by John Nash. mere mortals cannot challenge that way.

[DuLake]

@Dulake: Did you know we(Muslims) are more christians than christians themselves?:

I'll be honest, I didn't watch the video, because it's simply not of consequence to me. Though I respect many teachings and perspectives of religion, I'm an atheist and, as such, reject all dogmatic religious claims. Why should I, an atheist, care if somebody finds flaws in a religion I too find flaws in?

Even Bible is/was the word of the God before it was changed(<-I didn't wanted to go into that matter that's why I didn't say anything about bible) by people.

That's complete speculation. I've never heard any evidence to suggest the Bible was altered. Even if it is true, again, I don't believe in the Bible as divine. I do agree with several of the teachings in the Bible, but I agree with them because I find them logical, not because they're in the Bible. Do you see? Again, I also enjoy teachings from a number of other religions as well, so don't think I'm championing a religion, I also like aspects of Islam as well.

But, in Qur'an God challenges that no one can write a one single chapter that could resemble a chapter from the Qur'an. You should try to read the Qur'an you will see how it is written.

That doesn't mean it's true, just that it's not readily imitable. I could say the same thing, that my short story is the best in the world because you can't write something like it, but that doesn't make it true.

On the other hand, there are numerous dogmatic religious texts in the world full of human wisdom and unfalsifiable claims, just like the Qur'an. Do you have any reason why the Qur'an is better than another holy book outside of your subjective claims?

. . .And that's not even pointing out how subjective the nature of words like "resemble" are.

And I'm not asking you to enter Islam or anything. I was just saying what I believe in.

I appreciate that you're not patronizing me. I really do. Mind you though, that this discussion began when you suggested Big Bang theory was absurd because of BMWs. You engaged my beliefs first, now I'm just returning the favor.

Here's an example: I slapped you and now I would like to ask you "Can you give me the proof that you got hurt??" By that I mean God cannot be concieved but perceived.

It is true that you can never truly know what I'm feeling, but in this case there is evidence that could support the notion that I felt pain. You could look for physical signs such as redness, watering eyes, body language, etc. You can't truly know, but you can make a strong case. The same cannot be said for a deity.

And btw, Qur'an doesn't say anything...it's God who is saying everything. Qur'an is God's word. Get it?

Oh I see what you belief, but it's pure speculation. How do you know that the Qur'an is the word of god? Because you read it in the Qur'an? That's a circular argument and subject entirely to the credibility of the Qur'an, which cannot be verified without a deity, that can apparently only be verified through the Qur'an. Do you see how this could be problematic?

Hope, I answered your questions....it's just that I don't like debating...I just like to drop my say and leave but your views kind of made me interested and that is why I sticked to replying you back. Cuz you said you were a guy who researches.

I appreciate the compliment, but, again, you engaged my beliefs first.

My final say: Quran is the proof of ALLAH the creator, the sovereign, the only one worthy of worship the sustainer of all the worlds, universe and things which we know and that we do not know and the space, time , dimensions that are yet to be discovered by man. Now, a question arises how is Quran the proof of ALLAH. The answer to this question is ALLAH challenges in Quran to whole of humanity, mankind and other beings to come together and create one chapter that can resemble a chapter from the Quran.

The Qur'an cannot prove anything until it's veracity is determined. There is no such proof besides perhaps a proof of Allah, whose veracity is also undetermined. It seems that you can't evidence one without the other, making this a circular argument and, therefore, illogical.

A human being or any other being except ALLAH cannot challenge in this manner. Ex: Adam smith's (mathematician , father of modern economics) theory was defied by John Nash. mere mortals cannot challenge that way.

It actually seems to me that the evidence is stacked against religion from where I sit, but if you need to accept religion to live a complete life, go for it, just realize that you're trading logic to receive religion.

Also, no idea what you're talking about with Adam Smith. What does that have to do with Allah again? And how exactly can you prove that Nash's theory is better than Smith's?

[Leviathan87]

ok. here's how i see it could've happen 1 of 2 ways. we could of got here by a comet thats probably were are atmosphere came from. or aliens could of experimented with life on earth and just destroyed the non intelligent ones and starting over again. and finally getting a half intelligent creature then watching its evolution. and checking up on it every so and so years. just a theory fyi.

[† Anras Rune]

Hm, Adam Smith is being used in a debate about religion...O.o

I decided to do a bit of research on the Dr Naik person in the clips you post spidey, as the name was familiar and I couldn't think where from. Then I rememberd, after reading a few articles on news sites and the likes. Now I understand why I don't like him from before, as it is true that he speaks pure shit and drivel. He has publicly acknowledged Bin Ladens actions, saying that all muslims should become terrorist...*sighs* The man is banned from entering the UK and Canada.

http://agniveer.com/716/hate-zakir/

Check out that link, as it has some pretty interesting information in it. Now I can finally scoff as much as I want about those links. Now back on topic....lmao

[DuLake]

ok. here's how i see it could've happen 1 of 2 ways. we could of got here by a comet thats probably were are atmosphere came from. or aliens could of experimented with life on earth and just destroyed the non intelligent ones and starting over again. and finally getting a half intelligent creature then watching its evolution. and checking up on it every so and so years. just a theory fyi.

Do you have any evidence or is this pure speculation? I mean, it could be that this happened, but it also could be that a magical unicorn farted and the cosmos was born. Not really signing up for this theory until I see some evidence.

[Leviathan87]

nope. no evidence at all... and the big bang theory is more likely then there being a god

[Catwoman]

I don't believe in a God but I do believe aliens exist.

Did they create us? Probably not but the thought is very interesting.

[akshat]

No I don't believe it because there is not a thing called aliens.

[Catwoman]

Actually, aliens do exist. Belonging to a foreign country or nation, et cetera.

So what you said is untrue.

[† Anras Rune]

Do you have any evidence or is this pure speculation? I mean, it could be that this happened, but it also could be that a magical unicorn farted and the cosmos was born. Not really signing up for this theory until I see some evidence.

Actually, naito's views are technically the main idea behind panspermia theories. Except the atmosphere bit, we already know where that came from. But anyhoo, yeah, comets are prime candidates for the panspermia as many contain frozen nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen, plus carbon and various other elements; the building blocks of life. There is also varying degrees of evidence that we've been hit by multiple comets and asteroids (I know they ain't the same, but meh) long before the development of life on earth. Some craters found at the bottom of the ocean are predicted to outdate the dinosaurs by at least a hundred million years, bout mid way through the beginning of evolving life. This could be the seed of evolution, due to the immense heat and nutrient rich deposit it could have sparked an evolutionary widlfire, so to speak. We already know that these "evolutionary boosts" have happened on various occasions throughout the timeline of life on earth. The most recent was at the beginning and end of the last ice age. The most famous, after the extinction event that killed the dinosaurs. But the most promient, us.

We are a relativly young race, our current evolution only estimated at around 35,000 BC by some accounts, maybe more by others. It will take time for us to fully understand our place in the Universe. Until then, theories like this are all we really need, to keep hope. Should we discover we were influenced by another, more advanced race, then I say, kudos to them. Thanks for the gesture, now piss off. Simple. Let us get on with it!

P.S, anyone got any different, more detailed views to share? I don't want this thread to die, tis fun! ^,,^

[Leviathan87]

im not that great at that lol.

[HauK]

Think about this logically I'm not saying aliens created us but they did help us. How can two exact cultures build a pyramid on opposite sides of the world without the means of the ability to travel long distances such as food let alone survive the seas. It would be impossible for enough people to travel such a distance to build a pyramid let alone have a reason to build it.

[Catwoman]

You could say the same about Stonehenge but scientists found an explanation.

They most likely have their fair share of theories on the pyramids too.

That being said, I believe anything is possible.

Human or otherwise, so who really knows?