"Communist" vs. "Free"

[Reenhart]

A topic from an old forum I was on::

This is more of a comparison of how the two systems work, I want to know what everyone else thinks and where you would rather live "after" you read what I have read about and listened to on a political underground radio station here.

(Using the American vs. Russian political system)

Freedom:

Money and living

In a free country you have a right to make a living the best you can, but you can also end up in the category of not being prosperous at all and not able to get a job. There is a chance of never having enough money to survive. Healthcare is not given to you, it is up to you to fend for yourself along with all other insurance.

Government ran by the people

In a free country you have a right to go against the government and its the right for people to over throw the government, but when someone really decided to over throw the government the military and law enforcement will be used to 'exterminate' the situation... is the country really free to do as its law makers say? Can the people really get rid of something that could be destructive to a free nation?

Punishment

Time is the punishment, time and money. It's like telling a child to give up their candy and go into a corner for time out. When their time is up there is still a great chance that its repeated over and over. Crime rates are high in a free society, maybe the punishments are not great enough?

Communist

Before we touch on this issue I want to remind you that in a free country communism has the propaganda in the media to make you think its the worst possible place to be in. This propaganda is used everywhere, tv, net, school system(history class) ect

Money and living

In a communistic society jobs are provided for you, there is no possible way you cannot get a job, transportation/vehicals are provided for you aswell as insurance and health care. Communist nations want to make all of their citizens equal to one another in all aspects. But in a communist nation its not as possible to become 'rich' as it is in a free nation. You also dont get to pick and choose what is given to you, you are provided with a living and are still free to do as you please with it.

Government ran by the people

This goes pretty much the same as in a free nation except they go ahead and tell you that you cannot over throw the government.

Punishment

Punishment in communist soceity is very strict, you steal you lose your hand, you kill then you are executed. Crime rate is very very low in a communist country, someone on the radio show that visted russia said he could walk down a back alley at night and not be scared or he could leave his wallet somewhere and come back the next day and it still be there.

The reason they used Russia is because russia no longer uses this type of political system, the reports show that since the change the crime rate has burst and now people who once felt secure around their fellow man no longer do.

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On one side, you have a system that lets you do anything as you please but does not provide for you and makes it your problem if your not healthy or not safe. On the other side you have a system that provides for your needs and insures your safety and health but does not allow you to speak out against it and is very strict with laws.

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These are just afew sections out of the talk show I listened to, if this thread actually gets off the ground I will post afew more sections up. I want to know what you guys think on how the two systems are being disputed against one another. And what you would rather live in.

[Askio]

Well, personally a combo of the two would be best. People should be able to choose their jobs and earn their living, but should be provided some decent job if they can't get what they want. The problem with free society punishment and crime, especially in the US, is that they have adopted a reform the criminals instead of punish them. They shouldn't get a decent life if they did something that got them in there in the first place.

[-PHXN- New001]

I couldn't even finish reading it.

It's horribly slanted, and is not a good untampered representation of either situation.

[Anooxy]

It's horribly slanted, and is not a good untampered representation of either situation.

[† Emotional Outlet]

The point was that neither are absolutes. Communism isn't an absolutely horrid thing, nor is it the best thing since sliced bread. Same for whatever the "freedom" system is supposed to be (odd choice of words).

Can't really get an objective viewpoint from one person--everyone has their biases.

[Anooxy]

Isn't it called Democracy?

[† Emotional Outlet]

I always thought the US was a republic.

http://www.thisnation.com/question/011.html

"By popular usage, however, the word 'democracy' come to mean a form of government in which the government derives its power from the people and is accountable to them for the use of that power. In this sense the United States might accurately be called a democracy."

"Moreover, the scheme of representation and the various mechanisms for selecting representatives established by the Constitution were clearly intended to produce a republic, not a democracy.

To the extent that the United States of America has moved away from its republican roots and become more 'democratic,' it has strayed from the intentions of the Constitution's authors."

http://www.williampmeyers.org/republic.html

"... democracies and republics overlap"

"And, surprise, a representative democracy is a kind of republic. What distinguishes a republic is that it has an elected government. Representative democracies are, therefor, a kind of republic."

Anyway, it says in the quote that they're contrasting the US and Russia, so it's rather moot. The title is just misleading/unclear.

[† shinji]

Communism, in theory, is a great political system to be used. However, due to corrupt government officials; such as was the case in russia; it failed and lead people to believe that communism is bad. (which is an understatement to people's beliefs).

I'm not 100% sure about communism vs democracy/republics .. but i think modifying the COmmnusim politcal system a tad bit to make sure 1 person isn't in complete power, it would be an efficient system to have.

The problem with free society punishment and crime, especially in the US, is that they have adopted a reform the criminals instead of punish them. They shouldn't get a decent life if they did something that got them in there in the first place.

Yes, but if they actually DO punish them, how different would that make the US if they punished every criminal they came accross/captured. Everyone should get a second chance. If they blow the 2nd chance up, then its back to life in prison for them. That's what i believe. I mean, come on. Who gives human beings the right to take life away from others, even if they are authority figures. How different would that make them from murderers?

[Askio]

@shinji: I understand what you mean. Obviously if they steal they shouldn't have a hand cut off. This isnt the middle ages anymore. But the problem is that free society in this day and age has strayed so far since the early to mid 1900's about criminals, that right now criminals are more likely to commit crimes after jail time.

I think they should get time and some sort of hard hell like work depending on what they did. Maybe more if they did something worst then stealing or what not. But like a said a reform of one of the two, or rather a combo of the two systems would make a better government then the two as they are now.

[Whiplash]

I would also raise serious questions as to whether Communism as envisaged by Marx was ever actually implemented in Russia. Lenin largely abandoned his attempt to force communism on Russia when it began to threaten his grip on power and when he died Stalin did pretty much whatever he wanted. I don't know much about Kruschev's reign but I believe that in general, Russia still wasn't a truly communist country. It also wasn't just the corruption of its leaders, it was the nature of the beast that caused communism to fail. It proved unworkable and Russia faced mass famine because of it. True communism has never been acheived and never will be.

As it is, mixed market economies take little bits and pieces of it anyway. We still have some industries under state control (largely the necessary but unprofitable ones) and other industry is privatised.

[-PHXN- New001]

You're right, Lenin's reign was not communism at all. That was the name they gave it, but in reality it was without a doubt a dictator.

Communism is a great system, but only in a perfect society.

It would only work where people gave 100% of their possible labor.

If everyone worked to their fullest extent, that sure communism would be quite dandy. But seeing how that would never happen for more than a day, then communism is a failing system in our modern society.

[Whiplash]

As Churchill put it (I'm such a name dropper), "Democracy isn't the greatest system, but it's the best one we;ve got", or something like that. He described someone as "a sheep in sheep's clothing".

Good ol' Winnie.