Trails from Zero

[Dave55811]

So, on June 27th, 2024, sometime after 2PMCST, after having my overfill of Custom Mech Wars, I decided to switch to my Switch and get started on Trails from Zero.

 

As we speak, I already have over 5 hours of playtime, and I haven't even finished the prologue chapter.  Much of this can be attributed to how I do other activities besides just gaming, but while playing this game, I have been grinding.  My team is now at Lv.7, so the only real reason I'm grinding is just to get Sepith, which I have often exchanged for Mira, but I made sure to unlock every slot in Lloyd's Enigma.  I'm pretty much going word-for-word according to this guide, which may have contributed to my slow pace through this game.  Admittedly, also, there's a shit-ton to do, earlier than I anticipated, and I think my biggest challenge thus far was having to ensure that those kids weren't harmed during that fight with those Frost Slimes.  In my last attempt, Ryu (one of the kids) was attacked, but the enemy missed.  I hope misses don't count as hits.

Right now, what's to be done is to take on that Wald guy (the leader of the Saber Vipers).  According to the guide, it's going to be a difficult fight, but I'll have to defeat Wald within 32 turns, and that if I defeat Wald before the 32nd turn, I'll get 1 bonus DP (Detective Point).  If all goes well, I should have 41DP by the end of the chapter.  God help us all if that miss counts as a hit, though.

 

But anyway, Trails from Zero is going alright.  I am most appreciative of how there's auto-dialogue options; I have it set for spoken dialogue.  There's also an option to adjust the speed for high-speed mode.  There's an option for water shader effects, and even one FXAA option.  Personally, though, the background music for the title screen was a pleasant greeting; realizing that it's been over two months since my last Trails game, I thought "It's good to be back."  Though, I'm planning to have this game beaten before Earth Defense Force 6 comes out, so I have about four weeks.

 

This thread will surely go as expected like the previous threads.  As such, I can only ask that people who have played Trails from Zero refrain from posting spoilage.  For now, I'm off to finish the prologue chapter.

[Zemekis]

First thing's first: Welcome to the 2nd Arc! The Crossbell games are well-loved amongst fans, and I think it's for good reason. They're actually not my #1 favorites, but they're still 9 or 9.5's /10. The music is phenomenal, the characters are likable, and the story goes places. As always with Kiseki it's a very long time investment for a slow burn with a stellar payoff. Now that the Liberl Arc is complete, you'll begin reaping some rewards of the Kiseki storytelling style. Characters & events will start intersecting in ways that draw you in deeper and deeper. I also enjoy the battle system updates/tweaks made in Zero following the Liberl games.

I had auto-advance on my dialogue as well. I played the Geofront version of Zero and the PS4 version of Azure. From past threads, the Switch version would have been better, but I still got 99% of the same experience. I'll live, lol.

On 6/29/2024 at 9:01 PM, Dave55811 said:

I already have over 5 hours of playtime
...
my slow pace through this game.
...
I have about four weeks.

 

Don't fixate on your playtime too much. Perhaps we discussed it a bit too often in previous threads. Play at your own pace, there's no such thing as fast or slow, really. It's all relative. If you want to milk all the value out of the game in one playthrough, then do so! I do the same...just faster, somehow. I've known a few people who blow through these games in just a few dozen hours then immediately replay it to do a completionist run. I think they call the former a "story" playthrough, then the 2nd is a "completion" playthrough. I don't understand why they don't just do both at once, but in some cases it isn't pssible. If you want to collect Zemurian Ore through several playthroughs, for example. I digress.

Regarding game length (don't worry this isn't a true spoiler, It's just a large screenshot so I'm putting a tag on it):

Spoiler

 

I wouldn't take this as gospel, however. Script size doesn't necessarily translate directly into overall playtime for everyone. I think you proved this by spending almost as long with the 3rd as SC. FC's script is twice as long as the 3rd, but you spent 34 more hours on the 3rd. Gameplay & battle frequency factors in here. I think the largest contributor is probably cast size. ToCS III & IV have massive casts and I think that pads out time levelling them up. Same with the 3rd versus FC & SC. The 3rd also lacks traditional towns full of NPCs to bloat the wordcount.

 

On 6/29/2024 at 9:01 PM, Dave55811 said:

refrain from posting spoilage.

Absolutely. I agree, we should keep that as an active Trails-thread rule. Spoilers must be kept to prior games only.
 

Edited July 3 by Zemekis
spelling

[Dave55811]

I'm about 8/10's through Ch.1.  Currently I'm on the trail to Mainz.  Along the way, I've been doling unto monsters, as per my addiction to grinding, but I'm just about done with the chapter.  The premise of this chapter is with concern to a pack of wolves that have been causing trouble in some villages, and even St. Ursula Medical College.  However, it looks like not everything is as it seems; that old guy's story about "Divine Wolves" is legitimate, but the attacks seem to have been caused by someone else....possibly another pack?

 

On 7/1/2024 at 9:09 PM, Zemekis said:

First thing's first: Welcome to the 2nd Arc!

Why thank you.  I believe this is the "Crossbell Arc", right?  This is certainly a far-cry from the environment in TitS; in TitS, there was mostly a medieval aesthetic, but Crossbell is more citiful.  Hell; they even have cars and busses.  I wonder if I can buy a car in this game....though, 1,500,000 Mira might take a while, to say the least.

 

On 7/1/2024 at 9:09 PM, Zemekis said:

The Crossbell games are well-loved amongst fans, and I think it's for good reason. They're actually not my #1 favorites, but they're still 9 or 9.5's /10. The music is phenominal, the characters are likable, and the story goes places. As always with Kiseki it's a very long time investment for a slow burn with a stellar payoff. Now that the Liberl Arc is complete, you'll begin reaping some rewards of the Kiseki storytelling style. Characters & events will start intersecting in ways that draw you in deeper and deeper. I also enjoy the battle system updates/tweaks made in Zero following the Liberl games.

Well, Trails from Zero certainly has its differences from TitS, especially with regard to the combat system.  I like how you can sneak up on monsters, conk them on the head, then finish them off in a fight.  Sometimes, during this, you get an event where your whole party do a Team Rush, which can be helpful.  Also, it's possible to be such a high level that you can hit enemies in the field and they'll die.  You won't get ExP, but you'll still get Sepith, which is good enough for me.

 

Story-wise, I was told that the Kiseki series is connected, such that events which transpire in one arc have relevance in other arcs.  To complement that, I have encountered three familiar faces in this game so far.  Encountering these familiar faces was, honestly, unexpected.  Like, I get that the whole series has an interconnected story, so there would at least be names of characters being referenced in dialogue, so I'd think.....but, to see them in-game is a surprise, like "Oh, wow!" or something.

 

In terms of gameplay, besides the combat and exploration and all that, I've noticed that this game has an in-game achievement system.  This looks worthy of dabbling in, but I think I messed up in some parts (failing to scan certain enemies) and so I won't be able to get every achievement after my first playthrough.  In fact, to master this game might require tackling NG+, and....well, I'm sorry, but I don't think I'll be able to do that.

 

On 7/1/2024 at 9:09 PM, Zemekis said:

Don't fixate on your playtime too much. Perhaps we discussed it a bit too often in previous threads. Play at your own pace, there's no such thing as fast or slow, really. It's all relative.

Well, I dare argue that I have a legitimate reason to contemplate double-timing this game, like I did with Trails 3rd.  Plus, while it's true that I have other projects being worked on, I tackled the hardest part of one of them, so I feel like that offers me some spare time with which I can decide on how to spend.  Though, I do think the discussions over how long it's taken me to beat these games, compared to other people, has gotten to my head a little bit.  Still, if I'm enjoying this game, that should be all that matters, even if my total playtime is more than others'.  I forget if I said this before, but if I did, I'll say it again....JRPG's aren't meant to be speedrun'ed.  Kiseki is a classical style of JRPG, and I remember the Wikipedia article stating that Nihon Falcom made this series "to create the most ambitious story in videogames."  Therefore, it could be argued that Kiseki requires you to take in the story in order to appreciate it.  The story certainly has a lot going in it, though; I think I've forgotten the names of some things as months went on this year.

Edited July 3 by Dave55811
There was a space before "Why thank you." I deleted that space. Paragraph-structuring is something I take seriously. ^^;

[Nekone]

These games it's not always going to be possible to "100%" it in terms of achievements/trophies/etc in one go so don't fixate on that too, too much. The Crossbell arc for me was quite enjoyable. I recorded quite a few clips of some pieces of my playthroughs of both games in the arc (Zero and Azure) as well.

 

It did take me a little bit to get used to the changes to the combat system in this arc, but once I had it down I was cranking out those advantages like crazy

 

As far as connections go, you are certainly correct - the series is very much connected, you're going to find that out quickly as you progress, that certain things tie back to other things, names and events mentioned, familiar faces, etc. That's not just going to be true with this arc but also with the arc that follows it.

 

I won't spoil too much, if much of anything else, just enjoy the arc!

[Koby]

Each new arc you jump into, except a bit of a learning curve when it comes to new combat mechanics and how the quartz system works. They tend to shake that up. I think going from Sky to Crossbell shook things up less than you'll find out future arcs do. But lets just say Daybreak for me is definitely going to have an adjustment period as I try to get used to the new setup it has. I won't go into that though for spoilers. You can learn that on your own when you get to that point.

 

Also don't fret on game times. Everyone plays differently. I tend to have very short playtimes in comparison to other folks even though I also tend to go for 100% as much as I can as well. I think Nekone's times for example were higher than me for every single game.

[Dave55811]

So now I'm on Ch.2.  As usual, I'm grinding, but my reasons are valid, for I'm trying to fulfill a side-quest which I accidentally triggered, involving testing out a new Arts technique, as part of an "Enigma Combat Test".  I'm having trouble setting my Orbments up so that I can get the proper Sepith values.....×5 Time (black), ×3 Water (blue), and ×3 Wind (green).  This might be taking longer than usual because I'm using an excuse to grind for Sepith, but I'm currently unable to set up those values, so I'm trying to get enough Sepith to acquire higher-level Quartz.  The guide says that the values have to correspond to a line, but none of my characters have a black line, so I'm unsure of how to deal with that for now.  I figured that if I have the right Quartz, I'll be able to unlock one "Hollow Sphere" art.  On the other hand, it just hit me that I may have been interfered by a fuckin' ADHD moment, and realized that I need ×5 Mirage (white) Sepith....because, I'm looking at the guide right now, and one section on the page I'm on shows the line-up of Sepith, and Mirage is brighter than Time.

 

Tangram, which is situated in the East Crossbell Highway, is supposedly accessible, so I'll be sure to check that area out, too.  I say "supposedly", because I was able to reach an area in the tunnel towards Mainz, which led to a passage towards one "Moon Temple".  The Moon Temple is inaccessible, though, as it's blocked off by traffic-barricades.  Otherwise, I ran into two new monsters, one of which was familiar, scanned them and killed them.  I look forward to what Tangram offers.  I think Tangram is where one of my side-quests takes place, too.

 

Complementary image of best girl (by far) in Trails from Zero:

Besides the fact that she's the party's gunslinger, I think my reasons for deciding on her as "best girl" are superficial.  If I may be so bold, and assuming you all remember how the events in the prologue played out.....I wish I was one of the kids in the air-vent so I could glomp onto her.

 

20 hours ago, Nekone said:

These games it's not always going to be possible to "100%" it in terms of achievements/trophies/etc in one go so don't fixate on that too, too much. The Crossbell arc for me was quite enjoyable. I recorded quite a few clips of some pieces of my playthroughs of both games in the arc (Zero and Azure) as well.

 

It did take me a little bit to get used to the changes to the combat system in this arc, but once I had it down I was cranking out those advantages like crazy

 

As far as connections go, you are certainly correct - the series is very much connected, you're going to find that out quickly as you progress, that certain things tie back to other things, names and events mentioned, familiar faces, etc. That's not just going to be true with this arc but also with the arc that follows it.

 

I won't spoil too much, if much of anything else, just enjoy the arc!

True; this game plays differently from TitS.  I think my biggest complaint is the fact that there's no option to rotate the camera; in certain areas, the camera angle lowers itself, and this can confound attempts at making successful ambushes on enemies.  Sometimes you'll get to a spot where something is hidden behind foliage or trees, and without the ability to rotate the camera, you won't know what's hidden....though, perhaps that's a quality in itself, because I found a treasure-chest and examined it again for a message referencing how I was able to find it hiding.

 

Combat-wise, there are some differences, but I think I'm used to it.  Granted, after much repetition, I usually hold down the ZL button and A button to whiz through these battles.  I admit that's quite brain-dead, but I reserve that only for fights I've already dealt with.

 

20 hours ago, Koby said:

Each new arc you jump into, except a bit of a learning curve when it comes to new combat mechanics and how the quartz system works. They tend to shake that up. I think going from Sky to Crossbell shook things up less than you'll find out future arcs do. But lets just say Daybreak for me is definitely going to have an adjustment period as I try to get used to the new setup it has. I won't go into that though for spoilers. You can learn that on your own when you get to that point.

 

Also don't fret on game times. Everyone plays differently. I tend to have very short playtimes in comparison to other folks even though I also tend to go for 100% as much as I can as well. I think Nekone's times for example were higher than me for every single game.

I wonder what Trails of Cold Steel's learning-curve will be like.  In fact, isn't that where the Kiseki series starts being more polygonal?  Going from sprites to models will certainly be a real change.  But, being as I'm currently on one arc, I'd rather not think about the next arc, at least not until I get there, so the shift from sprites to 3D models is all I'll anticipate.

 

As for playtime, as I said earlier, that was something that I feel got a little too into my head.  My playtime may be longer than others', but that can be attributed to how I go about enjoying the experience.....plus the grinding.

[Nekone]

21 hours ago, Dave55811 said:

Complementary image of best girl (by far) in Trails from Zero:

Besides the fact that she's the party's gunslinger, I think my reasons for deciding on her as "best girl" are superficial.  If I may be so bold, and assuming you all remember how the events in the prologue played out.....I wish I was one of the kids in the air-vent so I could glomp onto her.

Heh. Mine was always Tio, for reasons you'll find out later.

[Dave55811]

7 hours ago, Nekone said:

Heh. Mine was always Tio, for reasons you'll find out later.

Tio, eh?  Tio's cute, but I'm old enough to be her father and so I shouldn't say "Oh she's cute," or something.  As a teammate, I'm seeking to utilize her in Orbal Arts, although I will admit that I haven't used my Orbal Arts a whole lot in my playthrough.  One time today, during a side-quest, I had my team use arts, but overall, I've mostly been whizzing through these fights by holding ZL & A.  Perhaps, near the end of my playthrough, I will start needing to use Orbal Arts, so let's not be too conclusive.

 

Also, it's interesting that you bring her up, because 10-20 minutes ago, I got finished witnessing one of her "super-powers".  I bet it's that mecha-nekomimi on her head, or whatever that thing is, but basically, she was exhibiting ultra-super-1337 h@xX0r skills, even bringing up inter-dimensional routes, thus resulting in determining where my team is headed next....Geofront B.

[Nekone]

8 hours ago, Dave55811 said:

Tio, eh?  Tio's cute, but I'm old enough to be her father and so I shouldn't say "Oh she's cute," or something.  As a teammate, I'm seeking to utilize her in Orbal Arts, although I will admit that I haven't used my Orbal Arts a whole lot in my playthrough.  One time today, during a side-quest, I had my team use arts, but overall, I've mostly been whizzing through these fights by holding ZL & A.  Perhaps, near the end of my playthrough, I will start needing to use Orbal Arts, so let's not be too conclusive.

 

Also, it's interesting that you bring her up, because 10-20 minutes ago, I got finished witnessing one of her "super-powers".  I bet it's that mecha-nekomimi on her head, or whatever that thing is, but basically, she was exhibiting ultra-super-1337 h@xX0r skills, even bringing up inter-dimensional routes, thus resulting in determining where my team is headed next....Geofront B.

Yes, in Zero Tio has a bit better utilization for arts but you can still get good arts utilization out of Elie too. Remember, foes throughout the series can have higher resistances to physical attacks or arts, and some may even require use of one or the other to defeat.

 

As for Tio herself, as stated there's reasons for that ability of hers that will become clear soon enough, and it ties into why I resonated a bit more with her character.

[Zemekis]

On 7/2/2024 at 6:34 PM, Nekone said:

I was cranking out those advantages like crazy

Same here, sometimes it felt like borderline abuse what I did to those monsters...
 

 

On 7/3/2024 at 2:56 PM, Dave55811 said:

Complementary image of best girl (by far) in Trails from Zero:
[Elie]

(Not sure if this is a spoiler or not. @Dave55811 hasn't met this character yet, but the image doesn't contain anything spoiler'y about her.) The best girl for me was:

Spoiler

Rixia Mao

Elie was my early-game favorite just due to looks and personality...but some of the above girl's character portraits sold me. She also plays a cool role in the cast/story. Between my choice/Elie/Tio and a few others there are plenty of respectable choices.

 

On 7/3/2024 at 2:56 PM, Dave55811 said:

there's no option to rotate the camera; in certain areas, the camera angle lowers itself, and this can confound attempts at making successful ambushes on enemies.

This threw me for a loop during my initial hours as well. While I admit that it can be annoying due to the limited perspective when attempting to ambush enemies or find treasure chests, it also provides for far more cinematic shots. On certain routes between map locations the screen will pan for some sweet shots of the landscape. It's a trade-off. I've also read that it was a concession for development/performance. The Crossbell Arc looks significantly sharper than the Liberl Arc & the building models have far more detail. Even some moving parts (Crossbell Times, I think?)! A rotating camera would have been costly for development because they would have had to build out the backs & sides of buildings. Keep in mind that this was originally a PSP game. 

On 7/3/2024 at 2:56 PM, Dave55811 said:

I wonder what Trails of Cold Steel's learning-curve will be like.  In fact, isn't that where the Kiseki series starts being more polygonal?  Going from sprites to models will certainly be a real change.

It will be more fun for you to go in blind, so I will keep this vague. In my opinion, the jump from Zero/Azure --> Cold Steel is far greater than the differences between TitS --> Crossbell. I like a lot of the changes, so I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you. I haven't encountered a battle system in the series that I dislike yet, so you're probably gonna be fine too. Yes, they use 3D models for the Cold Steel games onward. If you think that's going to be an adjustment...remember that I played Cold Steel I & II before finishing TitS. I went from Polygons -> Sprites -> back to Polygons 

 

10 hours ago, Dave55811 said:

Perhaps, near the end of my playthrough, I will start needing to use Orbal Arts, so let's not be too conclusive.

The rushdown method won't work on many bosses as you get further into the game. I don't use Arts often during standard encounters, but as Nekone said, it will become necessary to deal with certain monsters too. I can think of a few bosses (particularly in Azure) you can't beat without Arts. Don't neglect your Orbments, you'll run into a wall if you do.

 

2 hours ago, Nekone said:

As for Tio herself, as stated there's reasons for that ability of hers that will become clear soon enough, and it ties into why I resonated a bit more with her character.

 Agreed, I was likewise shocked to learn that Tio is Queen Frostine's daughter! Note the Orbal Staff.

[Dave55811]

I'm just about done with Ch.2.  I'm in Stargazer's Tower, currently getting a little grinding in, tempted by how I can acquire U-Material items.  I currently have 27 in stock, and I've never used them.  Evidently there an opportunity in this game to customize weapons, but I haven't explored that yet....likely because the guide hasn't yet suggested that I dabble in it.  Maybe I'll consider it in Ch.3.

 

7 hours ago, Zemekis said:

(Not sure if this is a spoiler or not. @Dave55811 hasn't met this character yet, but the image doesn't contain anything spoiler'y about her.) The best girl for me was:

  Reveal hidden contents

Rixia Mao

Elie was my early-game favorite just due to looks and personality...but some of the above girl's character portraits sold me. She also plays a cool role in the cast/story. Between my choice/Elie/Tio and a few others there are plenty of respectable choices.

Ah, Mao.  She is BrEaST girl, at least.

 

7 hours ago, Zemekis said:

This threw me for a loop during my initial hours as well. While I admit that it can be annoying due to the limited perspective when attempting to ambush enemies or find treasure chests, it also provides for far more cinematic shots. On certain routes between map locations the screen will pan for some sweet shots of the landscape. It's a trade-off. I've also read that it was a concession for development/performance. The Crossbell Arc looks significantly sharper than the Liberl Arc & the building models have far more detail. Even some moving parts (Crossbell Times, I think?)! A rotating camera would have been costly for development because they would have had to build out the backs & sides of buildings. Keep in mind that this was originally a PSP game. 

Ah; I guess that makes sense.  In fact, the guide I'm using confuses me once in a while by showing quests that are actually PS Vita-exclusive.  Because of this, I play it safe and create separate save files, though it looks like I've been getting the necessary cumulative DP during my playthrough.  I currently have 140DP, and by the end of this chapter I should have 154DP.  When I confirm that I have the necessary cumulative DP according to the guide, I delete the excess save files.

 

That being said, I guess the reason the Crossbell Arc lacks camera-rotation is because of reasons you've stated, particularly the thing with model textures.  If they fully-textured every model in the game, they wouldn't be able to squeeze it all in for portable platforms (PSP, actually, like you said, as this game came out in 2010), and we all know that portable platforms aren't as powerful as home platforms.  Despite what I said about the lack of a rotating camera, I accept it.  If I fuck up on sneaking up on an enemy, it's not really spaz-inducing; I just go "Oh, crap," and go about the battle as usual.

 

7 hours ago, Zemekis said:

It will be more fun for you to go in blind, so I will keep this vague. In my opinion, the jump from Zero/Azure --> Cold Steel is far greater than the differences between TitS --> Crossbell. I like a lot of the changes, so I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you. I haven't encountered a battle system in the series that I dislike yet, so you're probably gonna be fine too. Yes, they use 3D models for the Cold Steel games onward. If you think that's going to be an adjustment...remember that I played Cold Steel I & II before finishing TitS. I went from Polygons -> Sprites -> back to Polygons 

I guess I'm lucky in how I'm experiencing the Kiseki series thus far.  In fact, I think going from polygons to sprites was part of my "struggle" with getting into TitS, though that's more in concern to having played so many polygonal games that going back to an old-school portrayal took a lot of adjustment.  It's not that I have a problem with JRPG's having sprites, but rather just the possibility that I had "outgrown" such portrayals.  Either "outgrown", or haven't had enough exposure to them after so long.  I don't know.  But, getting into TitS has certainly remedied that "lack of exposure to such portrayals", such that going from those games to polygonal games brought about brief moments of unfamiliarity.

 

As for Kiseki being polygonal after the Crossbell Arc, I certainly won't have an issue with that.  As long as they're able to retain high-speed mode, I'll be happy.

 

7 hours ago, Zemekis said:

The rushdown method won't work on many bosses as you get further into the game. I don't use Arts often during standard encounters, but as Nekone said, it will become necessary to deal with certain monsters too. I can think of a few bosses (particularly in Azure) you can't beat without Arts. Don't neglect your Orbments, you'll run into a wall if you do.

To be fair, there was certainly a moment last night when I was fighting these giant horned monkeys (Gordi Ossa) on my way to Stargazer's Tower.  They were Lv.25, and I was Lv.22, and I had to make use of Orbal Arts.  There was no way I could speed through this fight, as I had to be strategic (repositioning, canceling impending enemy arts, utilizing fire elemental arts) and use items (foodstuffs, preferably) when necessary.  My first time, my team got their asses kicked, but I managed to beat them on my second attempt, by utilizing what I explained in the previous sentence.  In the end, I got 5 experience points; that blew my mind.

 

The guide says that I can just scan higher-level enemies and run away, but one quirk I've upheld during my experience with Kiseki is never running from a fight.  If I accidentally choose the "Run" option in a fight, I re-load my previous save; this happened once in either Trails SC or Trails 3rd, and I was like "God dammit!" because I meant to choose another option.

 

But, yeah; I think it's getting to the point where I should take my Orbments more seriously.  I make sure they're wearing high-level Quartz (currently at 2) and I upgrade their slots whenever I can, at least.

 

7 hours ago, Zemekis said:

Agreed, I was likewise shocked to learn that Tio is Queen Frostine's daughter! Note the Orbal Staff.

So, Kiseki is canonically-linked to Candy Land?  If you say so.

Edited July 5 by Dave55811
Added "utilizing fire elemental arts" in the parentheses detailing how I had to be strategic in dealing with those giant horned monkeys.

[Nekone]

Probably a side note I should point out is I played all of the franchise so far on PC, using my Xbox wireless controller to play. At the time, I didn't have any other platform to play it on so PC was the only choice. It still very much plays the same but I wanted to be up front about that difference.

 

Also - I won't spoil anything, but you'll really like the finale chapter that Zero throws at you, it really stacks on Lloyd's whole "getting over barriers" thing, you'll enjoy what the game throws at you by then, take my word for it.

[Dave55811]

On 7/5/2024 at 5:54 PM, Nekone said:

Probably a side note I should point out is I played all of the franchise so far on PC, using my Xbox wireless controller to play. At the time, I didn't have any other platform to play it on so PC was the only choice. It still very much plays the same but I wanted to be up front about that difference.

 

Also - I won't spoil anything, but you'll really like the finale chapter that Zero throws at you, it really stacks on Lloyd's whole "getting over barriers" thing, you'll enjoy what the game throws at you by then, take my word for it.

Ah, yes; as you may or may not know, I played TitS on PC (bought on GOG).  I had to make some "adjustments" to enjoy it most optimally, one being getting a new TV that I could hook up to my PC, and getting a controller.  I wonder if I should've gotten that one Bluetooth controller; what I got was an 8BitDo Ultimate C 2.4G Wireless Controller, and this resulted in a setup that might be described as "cursed".  You see, my TV is in my living room, and my PC is in my bedroom.  I did get a USB extension-cable, but the reality is that USB-C gadgets (in this case, controllers) aren't meant to be extended.  As a result, my controller would experience disconnections and reconnections, signified by the USB sound you'd hear when disconnecting and reconnecting a USB thing, respectively.  During these instances, for example, my character would keep moving even if I let go of the directional buttons and/or stick.  There would also be random button inputs that would bring up the map, recipe menu, or some other menu.  It wasn't anything truly game-breaking, and it wasn't as recurring as you might think it was, but it was certainly an inconvenience.

The reason I didn't get the Bluetooth controller was because I didn't want to blow $70+ for something that I didn't know would work; I had reason to believe that a Bluetooth controller would be screwy, because I'd be using it in my living room and not so close to my PC.  I think maybe I'm just incompetent about how tech works; I thought that the signals wouldn't be able to reach my controller from my bedroom to my living room, either because the signals can't go through walls or because I don't have enough receptors or wireless tech.  "Receptor".....yup; there's your proof that I exhibit incompetence about tech.  Hell; I think there's a difference between "wireless" and "Bluetooth", even if they're wireless.

As for your choice to experience the franchise on PC, that's fine.  I think the Kiseki games were meant to be experienced on PC, being as TitS came out on PC first.  Alas, I prefer to play games on console.  Though, I certainly have things set up where I can play PC games in my living room.....well, all things considered.

 

As for Trails from Zero, thanks for the heads-up.  I'm wrapping up Ch.2, currently surveilling the halls outside of the auditorium.  I ran into Alyssa Mercant-eh, Grace, the chick who works for CNS, and despite her little troublemaking, she clued me in on something, and some crazy shit's about to go down, which I'm about to witness in about half an hour.

Edited July 9 by Dave55811
Forgot to add a little more detail justifying how playing Kiseki on PC is fine. Also, the controller is "Ultimate C 2.4G Wireless Controller"; I forgot the 'C'.

[Koby]

Why would you need to buy a controller to game on PC if you're typically a console gamer? All modern console controllers are plug-n-play on PC. In fact I've used PS3, PS4, PS5, and Switch controllers on PC. Nekone uses XBOX controllers.

[Dave55811]

On Ch.3, day 2.  I just got finished bonding with Randy, although during that event I used the Combo Craft.  The guide says to refrain from using Combo Crafts if you're seeking to bond with all of your teammates....but, the guide said to select one of two choices to get bonus DP, which I did; the second prompt's second choice offers you bonus DP, but it's the Combo Craft.  I'm prioritizing DP over everything else, but even so, I made a new save file just to play it safe.

 

On 7/5/2024 at 8:02 PM, Koby said:

Why would you need to buy a controller to game on PC if you're typically a console gamer? All modern console controllers are plug-n-play on PC. In fact I've used PS3, PS4, PS5, and Switch controllers on PC. Nekone uses XBOX controllers.

Well, to be fair, I was referenced a link to an application that would allow for me to hook up my PS4 controller.  One thing I liked was being able to adjust the LED light's color.  Unfortunately, I got impatient after seeing how the camera would automatically rotate when playing Trails FC with the PS4 controller.  I guess I just couldn't be fucked to take precious time to set things up properly....so, eventually, I went out and bought the aforementioned controller.  That did the trick; the only catch is that it will crap out on you when trying what I did (hooking up a USB extension-cable to play in the living room).

[Zemekis]

On 7/5/2024 at 9:02 PM, Koby said:

Why would you need to buy a controller to game on PC if you're typically a console gamer? All modern console controllers are plug-n-play on PC. In fact I've used PS3, PS4, PS5, and Switch controllers on PC. Nekone uses XBOX controllers.

 

11 hours ago, Dave55811 said:

I was referenced a link to an application that would allow for me to hook up my PS4 controller.

If I recall, he wasn't able to get DS4 Windows working/couldn't figure it out. I think both Steam & DS4 Windows were picking up his controller so they were fighting. He also has a really wacky setup as he described 

 

For my part, I've never been unable to get a controller working for a PC game after some troubleshooting, but I did require a different setup for each game throughout TitS 1 - 3 & Trails from Zero. Partially my mistake and partially a byproduct of PC gaming/Steam. FC worked with my DualShock 4 & Steam alone, although I had to launch it through Big Picture mode for the controller layout to stick. SC defaulted to some abysmal button layout & I was fighting with it resetting via Steam so I overrode it with DS4 Windows, although Steam would fight sometimes and mess up my connection. Same with the 3rd. For Zero, I was playing the Geofront's release (launching via Steam)...that caused even more controller issues so I opted to use DS4 Windows + the Geofront launcher with Steam turned off after a while.

 

I'd like to try a HexBox controller one of these days, I've heard that they play nicest with PC gaming. I've never owned an Xbox and I don't find the button layout as comfy as a DualShock's. The DS4 is my favorite modern controller...and sometimes it is plug-n-play as Koby said...but sometimes not. It's always possible to solve eventually.

 

11 hours ago, Dave55811 said:

The guide says to refrain from using Combo Crafts if you're seeking to bond with all of your teammates....

It's not that important. I think that's if you're trying to get all the 'chievos in a single playthrough. It doesn't affect DP if you can't do all bonding events in one go (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Holding yourself back from Combo Crafts just for that will kneecap your enjoyment of the game & stifle you in combat. I used the same guide and got all the bonding events, so I speak from experience.  I assume you're going to simp for Elie through to the end, so perhaps only allow yourself Combo Crafts with her? Maybe that's a good middleground.

[Koby]

Modern games come with modern controller support as-is, but older games will typically work with Steam Input or DS4Windows, etc... There's almost always a way to force a controller to work. According to Playnite I have over 3,000 PC games (though this counts all the roms for emulation as well), but Steam alone is over 1,100.

 

All of the Trails games work perfectly fine for me with multiple controller types (I played some with a PS4 controller and some with PS5 controller initially). They even support (maybe Sky doesn't) changing button prompts to match your controller whether it be a typical PC controller, an XBOX controller, a Playstation controller, or even a Switch controller. I get Dave's use-case being strange and having it's share of issues but yours Zemekis sounds like a config issue. Maybe you've got Steam input enabled or disabled when the vice versa was needed?

 

Only time DS4Windows is ever needed imo is for non-Steam games with bad controller support, as on Steam, Steam Input works far better for the games with poor controller support by default.

 

As for button layout... very little has changed between the Trails games in this regard. It's practically the same button layout in Daybreak as in Sky FC with very minor exceptions and I've never had a problem with the default layout for a Playstation controller.

 

Also never have used Big Picture mode ever.

 

Anyways, I stand by the fact that my PS5 controller has always been plug-n-play. At most all I've ever had to do is disable or enable Steam input depending on the game.

Shoot I've used PS controllers for PC gaming since way back during the PS2 era... and those required a usb adapter and some firmware install... now that one was definitely not plug-n-play. But console controllers have come a long away since then.

 

Do you by chance keep your Dualsense controller firmware updated? Sony makes it pretty easy on PC. https://controller.dl.playstation.net/controller/lang/en/fwupdater.html

 

I wish more games on PC actually supported the Haptic Feedback function of the controller.

 

A buddy of mine keeps trying to convince me to buy a Dualsense Edge, but the cost of it doesn't seem like a good investment when Dualsense seems to stick drift about every 1-2 years of use and I can just buy another one of them for $40.

 

Anyhow didn't mean to diverge the topic to troubleshooting controllers. I was just curious why Dave had to go out and buy a controller if he mostly played consoles as I figured he could've just used any of those controllers and saved some money.

[Dave55811]

Still on Ch.3, day 2.  About to pay that Jona kid a visit, but for now I've been grinding so I can get some King Burgers.  If TitS taught me anything, it's that food that jacks up your CP is an absolute must.  I just wish you could learn recipes after eating a foodstuff, though....especially since there's an area in Downtown District where I can exchange off-the-shelf ingredients for ingredients that are only dropped by monsters, which I dare admit is another thing I'm grinding on as well.  Grinding for Sepith, to exchange at the IBC for Mira, to buy ingredients, to exchange for monster ingredients, rinse-and-repeat.  At this rate, maybe I should just go pay that kid already.

 

14 hours ago, Zemekis said:

If I recall, he wasn't able to get DS4 Windows working/couldn't figure it out. I think both Steam & DS4 Windows were picking up his controller so they were fighting. He also has a really wacky setup as he described

Oh; now I remember.  I noticed that, at least from what I saw, you need to be on Steam in order to configure and operate the controller properly.  I don't have Steam installed on my computer.  I have a Steam account, but I don't have Steam installed on my computer.....and, given what I learned about Steam recently, I don't think I should even bother installing Steam.  It's one thing after another....

 

....which brings me to my next point.  I'll be the first to admit it; I tend to be "hard to work with" when it comes to being advised about setting things up for my computer.  I get where people here are coming from here, about the absurdity of buying a controller for my PC, but I'm just dead-set on how I go about making sure I get what I want out of something.  And, admittedly, there was a consequence, and it was that the controller kept having menstrual cycles every once in a while....but, that's because of my decision to play in my living room, instead of sitting on my ass in front of the computer like I always do.  Now that I realize that USB-C isn't meant to be extended, I could at least make better preparations if I ever get more into PC-gaming.  But anyway, despite these shortcomings, I was able to enjoy TitS.  Shouldn't that be what matters?

[Koby]

41 minutes ago, Dave55811 said:

But anyway, despite these shortcomings, I was able to enjoy TitS.  Shouldn't that be what matters?

Always enjoy tits.

[Zemekis]

On 7/8/2024 at 12:04 AM, Zemekis said:

I've never been unable to get a controller working for a PC game after some troubleshooting

 

22 hours ago, Koby said:

There's almost always a way to force a controller to work.

Rather than going back & forth with controller troubleshooting (as you mentioned) suffice to say that we're ultimately on the same page. I mostly play older stuff. Never used a Dualsense w/ PC, just DS3 and DS4. I've heard very good things about the Dualsense being plug-n-play, I won't deny that. My DS4 has not been. It's always solvable with some ingenuity or luck.

 

9 hours ago, Dave55811 said:

I'll be the first to admit it; I tend to be "hard to work with" when it comes to being advised

Hey, you said it, not me! I danced around it, but yes this was ultimately the issue when I was helping you get set up to play Kiseki. As I recall, it took weeks for you to begin playing as we performed troubleshooting until I let you solve things your way. You'll notice that I strategically cut the quote as well.  I'm mostly just joking please don't be mad.
 @Koby As you get to know Dave through his posts here you'll come to find out that he's got a way of going about things. I'm not trying to be a hard-ass to him by bringing this up...but my strategy after knowing him IRL for years is to make one good faith effort to show him the normal way of achieving a goal. Then, if I see a wild goose chase begin I grab popcorn. He's a great dude, but Dave is gonna Dave.
Besides...

Spoiler

 

9 hours ago, Dave55811 said:

enjoy TitS

 

9 hours ago, Koby said:

Always enjoy tits.

We're all the same in the ways that matter.

 

Back to commentary about the game:
It's interesting to me how much you grind for food ingredients & mira/sepith. I almost never did that, if ever. I used food maybe twice per game tops on optional bosses (the ones you can lose to and still proceed). Do you guys use it often in normal battles? As you said earlier, with fast-forward and standard encounters, holding a button is usually sufficient to evaporate enemies. I had full Craft Points rather often. I also used Gladiator Belts and the like for massive gainz. Ch. 3 is pretty long if memory serves. I am DYING to play some Trails myself, but the FF7 Rebirth slop will not end.

Dave, what's your playtime looking like thus far?

My interest in your progress threads will be redoubled once I'm playing Trails at the same time. Would this be the appropriate thread to post my progress in? Or should I make a new one since that one is more about release news?

 

 

Edited July 9 by Zemekis