Money

[seirachan]

I look around and I see people talking about money, everything they do with it, why they need it etc. But I believe Money is nothing more then an illusion. Some people think money is power and happiness, but it's not. Money was created by humans, It's paper, coins and a number. It's an attempt at creating balance in our world. It may have it's flaws but it does work. However it is not power, and it is not happiness. Have you ever been so hungry you can't even walk? You can't go to the store, there's no food around you. You look at that paper, those coins, that number and you realize, just how worthless it really is. Money is only considered worth because our society deems it so. If that society crumbled, it wouldn't be wroth anything. But as it is, you must work to make those numbers, to make your life better. But only because we are told to. Our world is far form perfect and it is imposable to create a world where everyone is happy. I believe happiness is in our souls, not what a number can buy and power is a strong heart that can get through anything. Cause no matter what we do or how we do it, we will all die someday. Money wont stop that from happening, if you die today or years from now it's all the same, just make your life last while you got it.

[† Anras Rune]

is this supposed to be an opinion thread or are you just making a statement? meh. Either way, I'm going to comment on this. First, money is power because we have set it up to be so. Capitalism is the single worst system for equality the human race has ever created yet we make it seem like it is the dogs bollocks. Like you said, we put value into something that others cannot get without more money. BUT without it we would live in a society where survival of the fittest would be the norm or in a purely anarchistic heirarchy.

Second, it is all fine and dandy saying all this when you have money. Sure, we can all say money is worthless, it don't mean squat, but we can only say this cause we haven't had to live in conditions where a dollar feeds you for a week. And before anybody comes at me saying I'm being pretentious saying I know this, you are using a computer...something that in some countries is so foreign to them that selling one could feed a family for an entire year. I do not like quotes or statements like your one seira as it, in my opinion, is pointless drivel from people living in a developed western society. Sorry if that offends but it is just what I think.

[† Mute point]

Money is second only to religion in causing problems in the world. It is however, ahead of religion in solving them. How does this make sense? I don't know! Go ask an economy expert! Stop looking at me! >.<

Having a lot of money won't always make someone happier, or even change their life at all, but I'll say this.. Unless you're out in the wilderness, miles from civilization, or in a foreign country where your money is meaningless and you can't get it exchanged, you can always go to the store and get more food if you have money. Making that example of money's inherent worthlessness entirely irrelevant.

[Digatu]

I dare anyone to go a week without spending a penny on food or eating and you will see the power of Money. Wait till that belly rumbles and you'll run of to that shop like a lightning bolt but don't pay with money just tell the shopkeeper you're hungry and to give you a freebie and you'll be laughed at

Money is Power. It doesn't make you happy but id rather be rich and not happy rather than poor and not happy.

[† Mute point]

If you're hungry, and have no money, get a friend who has a costco membership to take you there on... I think it's tuesday? They have a ton of free samples. If it's not tuesday, sorry. I only go in there once a month at most.

I could easily go a week without spending money, but if I even thought about going a week without eating, I'd have to slap myself... I worked really hard to get up to a healthy weight, not going to lose it for something that silly.

[zx0]

There are a few different ideas mixed up in here!

The paper money has near zero value, it is an IOU. Coins have some value, but not face value. We don't need money to survive, for millions of years humans survived by working together and a bartering system (eg. You build me a chair and I will give you some of my crop). Building upon that bartering system we developed stores of value, or money. Say this piece of gold is worth a sheep. So then people start using gold or other precious metals to trade. There is nothing wrong at all with this system.

The gold and silver used to store value will still have value if the economy crashes, however the paper money in your wallet will be worthless. Paper money used to be backed by physical assets (gold) but that is no longer the case. By making a complicated economic system we have lost the value of money, the dollar, pound, euro or whatever your country uses is a concept which could collapse at any time. Just look at post war Germany, Zimbabwe etc. hyperinflation will turn the actual value of a dollar into nothing. You will pay $5000 for a loaf of bread.

The third concept brought up is capitalism. This is tied in with the economy, but is not the same thing. Capitalism tries to make more value out of thin air. The economy always needs to be growing just to keep us in the same place due to inflation. These days the governments around the world want a bit of inflation to reduce their debt burdens. However all the countries want this so they all just keep pace. You can't steal growth from developing countries anymore because they are struggling for growth themselves.

I think a better word for the topic would be wealth. Wealth is having more than you need. As others have said you need to eat, have shelter from the weather, some basic healthcare incase you get sick, so in essence you do need money to pay for all of this (or a welfare state that will provide it all for you). Above the basics though people always want more and bigger. More money, bigger house, bigger car... I personally don't think it is healthy and people are never satisfied with what they have, they still think they need more.

Edited September 19, 2012 by zx0

[† Emotional Outlet]

I do not like quotes or statements like your one seira as it, in my opinion, is pointless drivel from people living in a developed western society. Sorry if that offends but it is just what I think.

Being privileged in that way allows for such thought. It's what allows us to debate extensively over whether peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are racist, what allows for people who claim to be a multiple system containing both a toddler and a flying dog that they are being maltreated when their parents are paying for everything (including their apartment)--because we are living so comfortably otherwise. The Social Justice Warriors on Tumblr seem to very rarely acknowledge this because they're so busy calling everyone the devil for their cissexism.

As far as coins, this is kind of interesting. Melting down $50 worth of pennies (1909-1982 95% copper pennies) would theoretically yield $124.37 (it also links to eBay auctions for those types of pennies). If you chose nickels, you get $53.22, which isn't much more than what you started with ($50).

Isn't there a saying that says money isn't happiness, but for some reason it's more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than it is to cry while sitting on a bicycle? And OP definitely reads like a statement vice an opening for a debate.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Emotional Outlet

[Cain]

"Money can't buy happiness" i came to believe that even that statement is false

like some people already mentioned here that to some selling this computer you and i are using would feed a family for months

and do you think that family wont experience happiness seeing their kids being fed and not having to watch them starve?

Sadly as it may seem you can't say money isn't worth anything that's just how it is...simple reality, whether you deem it wrong or right doesn't really matter in the end.

[seirachan]

Yeah people can post their own beliefs, I just think it doesn't matter when we die pretty much and I pity the man that sacrifices life for money.

[† Mute point]

If you're smart about your money, whatever is left of it will go to your loved ones after you're gone. Granted, that doesn't do you any good, but it will help make their lives a bit more comfortable.

[zx0]

If you're smart about your money, whatever is left of it will go to your loved ones after you're gone. Granted, that doesn't do you any good, but it will help make their lives a bit more comfortable.

Don't forget the government steal their chunk if you die. BASTARDS!

[Leviathan87]

money keeps order in this world of billions without order people would most likely be killing other people. and fyi the us dollar isnt paper.

[† Mute point]

The reasons we have money instead of continuing with a true barter system are...

A: It is more fair, because with a barter system, a load of corn might be worth 1 pig, or 2 loads of apples, or a cow, or whatever. With money, it is the same price for everyone. Other than price fluctuations and bad negotiating of course.

B: Not everyone in the world has space to grow things other people want. In the earlier days of the world, there was enough open land that everyone could have an area to grow trade goods. If you went back to such a system now, less than half of the people in the world would have things to trade, and thus, more than half of the people in the world would be totally fucked (And not in the fun way)

and finally C: Because it's easier to carry around a roll of bills or a pocket full of coins than it is to carry around a pig.

[zx0]

The reasons we have money instead of continuing with a true barter system are...

A: It is more fair, because with a barter system, a load of corn might be worth 1 pig, or 2 loads of apples, or a cow, or whatever. With money, it is the same price for everyone. Other than price fluctuations and bad negotiating of course.

B: Not everyone in the world has space to grow things other people want. In the earlier days of the world, there was enough open land that everyone could have an area to grow trade goods. If you went back to such a system now, less than half of the people in the world would have things to trade, and thus, more than half of the people in the world would be totally fucked (And not in the fun way)

and finally C: Because it's easier to carry around a roll of bills or a pocket full of coins than it is to carry around a pig.

A. is not true. Many things cost different amount throughout the world. In the UK we pay over the odds compared to the US and Japan for electronics. Even in the US different states have different taxes making even basic items cost differing amounts.

B is not true either. You get money in exchange for work. In a bartering system you still work, only instead of getting paid in money you get paid in goods. I am not saying we should go back to bartering, just pointing out that money has no intrinsic value.

C is certainly true

[† Emotional Outlet]

As far as the first point goes, I think she might have been speaking in a more limited sense vice a general, worldwide sense. Of course if you compare the price of bread in Nashville against the price of bread in Manilla against the price of bread in Tokyo, it's going to vary. But the price of bread in Tokyo won't matter much to the poor sod in Nashville trying to buy a loaf of honey wheat bread.

And I'm pretty sure people know US dollars are made of linen and cotton vice paper, but understand what is meant by "paper money".

I would carry around a pig but it'd have to be one of those little tiny ones so I can put it in my purse. I'd hate to have to wrestle with a 500 pound sow (because I would lose, that is why I would hate it).

Here's an interesting little essay on money and cashless economies from Wired. There's a little point in there towards the end that one of the arguments against moving towards some sort of cashless society is because panhandlers would no longer be able to panhandle. (Strange argument.) Tangentially, I have read that it's cheaper to buy the homeless homes than what we're doing now.

[seirachan]

Money is a way of keeping balance, it's not prefect but it works. I'm not saying money is evil or anything like that. I just mean that life is more valuable.

[DrumRoll]

If we didn't have money something else would simply fill the gap; beans, tokens etc.

its not an illusion, but the hard fact of life made tangible. Quid pro quo. And humans are far too....human to be content with a straight trade, we will always want a little more.

if we didn't have a monetary system then it would be at the expense of all luxuries.