Absolutely New Theory on Tobi's Identity [SPOILER]

[Leviathan]

Well I was surfing the net when I found this thing. It's an absolutely new theory on Tobi's identity. This was posted by a guy name Kisame123 in Naruto Forums. I couldn't put any theory against his points except the last point. I will be posting it here, please comment on it.

Theory: Tobi and Resurrected Madara are the same person.

Point One

This is an image

here we see that the Kyuubi recognized a person through Tobi's Sharingan. Madara is the only one who tamed the Kyuubi like a pet and controlled it through his Sharingan. after him, the Kyuubi had been sealed in Mito all these years and then Kushina. the Kyuubi's memory isn't deceiving him, this is Madara.

Point Two

Madara fought Hashirama for his cells,we know that Zetsu has the ability to clone any ninja, right down to their source of chakra. furthermore, we know that Zetsu is integrated with Hashirama's cells. in order for Madara to preserve Hashirama's cells for the last 80 years, he used Zetsu to clone those cells and continuously produced cultures for his personal use. we saw a bit of that in his HQ, particularly the Hashirama-Zetsu thing in his basement, in other words, the Hashirama cells that are in use now came from 80 years ago. Tobi and Zetsu had to have been alive 80 years ago to possess Hashirama's cells.

now let's connect the facts concerning these two Madara's. the Edo Madara knows Nagato and thought that Nagato summoned him, not Kabuto.

Madara assumes at first, that Nagato has summoned him. he soon realizes that he's wrong after Muu explains otherwise:

"Did you say Edo Tensei...?!"

so Madara was expecting that Nagato would summon him. doesn't this sound too familiar? we know that Tobi mentioned something about having Nagato use Gedo Rinne Tensei for "himself".

Point Three

this also confirms that Madara was alive after he fought Hashirama and did not die in his fight against him. How could he have known Nagato as a young boy if he died 80 years ago?

this also another fact that connects Tobi with Madara. so how and why did Madara know Nagato as a young boy? have you all forgotten?!

that explains why this Edo Madara expected Nagato to summon him and last knew him as a boy before he died. it's because he gave Nagato the Rinnegan and expected him to have grown up to be able to use it's techniques: Gedo Rinne Tensei!

so now we know that Tobi is Madara and Edo Madara is also the same character. their mindset and goals are exactly the same. so how did one person end up in two bodies? it's simply because he split his soul in half, he performed something like a horcrux. the first question that should come up is, why? first of all, we know that the EMS grants the user immortality. however, Kakuzu clarifies that there is no such thing as true immortality in the sense that the human body decays. both Kakuzu and Orochimaru realized this and made efforts to either refresh or switch their bodies. perhaps the EMS allows Madara to do the same?

Point Four

so then who's body is Madara in now? I don't think anyone can continue trolling themselves further and deny that this Tobi is in fact, Obito. Madara and Zetsu must have found him as he was dying underneath rubble. this explains why Tobi is missing arms and portions of his body that conveniently match the portions of Obito's body that was destroyed by being crushed. we know that these artificial arms can't be the "injuries" from the battle between Hashirama and Madara.

Madara retains both arms, this can also explain why Madara's soul was split? it's because Obito was still alive, just barely, as Madara conducted the soul migration. migrating one's soul into a lifeless body is not possible. even Orochimaru and Kabuto need a fresh, living body to migrate their souls into. Madara could only fit in half of his soul or somehow duplicate it. thus, there are two souls in Obito's body, his own and Madara's. how or what technique Madara used is uncertain, but the results are here for everyone to see.

however, we do know that Madara survived these 80 years after he gave Nagato the Rinnegan when he was a young boy, expecting him to use Rinne Tensei. it makes sense as by Obito's and Nagato's time period, Madara's body would have been too old. he knew that he needed to switch and that gave him a reason to give the Rinnegan to Nagato, in the hopes that one day, he would find a technique (Juubi) to rejuvenate his old body and use the Rinnegan he gave to Nagato to return his soul into that body.

Everything inside the spoiler tag is written by Kisame123. I only made minimum change to it, for example in cases of punctuation marks.

I personally can say nothing against points 1,2 and 3. Though point 4 seems to be a little absurd.

So what do you think? Please share your thoughts on this theory.

[Koby]

Point 1: Tobi could have stolen Madara's eyes after Madara's death. Example, even Itachi resurrected had his eyes again, despite his eyes being implanted into Sasuke after death.

Point 4: This guy is an idiot. Obito couldn't possibly be the body because his entire right half was crushed and he also wouldn't have been the right size during the attack on Konoha.

[saminyt]

Point 1: I have no logical counter for this point.

Point 2: It isn't necessary to live 80 years just to obtain and preserve the cells. Danzo and Orochimaru did it and they were certainly not over 80 years old.

Point 3: We already know that Madara was alive after the battle with Hashirame. But at a point in later time, he died of aging. Otherwise, he couldn't have been revived by Reanimation technique. This also contradicts with this guys theory that the EMS gives the user immortality.

Point 4: At the time Obito was crushed, the Uchiha clan wasn't massacred yet. So, why would Madara transplant his soul to a crushed weak body like Obito's instead of the other strong Uchihas?

[Leviathan]

Well Koby gave a good theory against point 1, though we don't know if it's correct or not.

Now, after reading Kisame123's theories I have come to a conclusion that this theory is very much possible if we do some modification to it of course. So I made some modifications in the theory and present to everyone here. Please read it and comment on it.

1. Madara achieved the Rinnegan after he fought Hashirama. Now remember this that the Rinnegan allows one to use Banbutso Sozo or Creation of all things. Now, Sage of Six Paths used this technique to rip the Ten-Tails souls into 9 parts. So why not Madara? For all we know, Madara could've given birth to Tobi in the same process before his death, creating something like a horcrux.

2. Now when Madara created Tobi he could've given him a body similar to his(in cellular level) allowing access to the Sharingan and Rinnegan. But Tobi's body was not perfect. We have seen Tobi's arms falling of like as if it had decayed. My guess is he had to go for a new body, but that would mean loss of his Rinnegan and Sharingan. He then chose Nagato Uzumaki, gave him the Rinnegan in hopes that one day he will get it back. Tobi needed a new body now. He found Obito's almost completely crushed body. He reconstructed this body with the help of Zetsu keeping the sharingan in the right eye intact. Once the reconstruction was done Tobi changed bodies. He then realized the absence of the sharingan in the left eye. He then killed a random uchiha and took his left eye.

In this way it would explain 3 things:

i) The space-time ability in his right eye.

ii) His incapability on the use of the Mangekyo Sharingan.

iii) Him wearing a mask which covered the left eye but not the right. Since the left eye was transplanted it couldn't be turned off and thus ate away chakra every moment.

3. Now, remember when Kakashi asked Tobi what he wanted, Tobi answered that he wanted to become complete. Couldn't it be that he was referring to the fact that one day he will reunite with the other half of his soul and body.

4. Saminyt gave a theory that, the fact that Madara was revived proves that he was dead. And I agree. But only that I believe it was half of Madara's soul which was revived, the other half being inside Tobi. We saw what happened in the latest chapter. Kabuto carried out an incomplete revival over the sealed soul of Orochimaru. This proves that Itachi didn't seal Orochimaru's complete soul rather only the part which was inside Sasuke. Kabuto carried out the revival over the part of the soul which was sealed inside himself.

5. Since Tobi was created from Madara, he had knowledge about Madara's past which he later showed to Itachi. Itachi then showed this to Sasuke during their battle.

6. Tobi always said that Izuna gave Madara his eyes on his own will, but Itachi said that Izuna's eyes were forcibly taken from him. Let's take Itachi's saying to be the truth, then we ask ourselves "Why did Tobi lie?" Now, the answer would be pretty clear to any Lord of the Rings fan. Tobi forcibly took Izuna's eyes and then made himself understand that Izuna gave it to him as a gift.

7. Finally here's how I am viewing Madara/Tobi's plans.

Madara died giving birth to Tobi. Now it was Tobi's job to collect all the tailed beasts and resurrect the Ten Tails. Once that would be done the Rinnegan would be used to use the Gedo Rinne Tensei and revive Madara. Tobi and Madara would then combine to become complete both in body and soul. They would then absorb the Ten Tails and initiate the ultimate Tsukiyonomi and rule the world.

So this was my version of the theory: Tobi and Resurrected Madara are same person. Please inform me if you have found any flaws in it.

[saminyt]

This theory seems more solid and a lot more thought out. I myself was thinking something like this after reading the first post. But still, these are all speculations. So nothing is sure until we see it in the Anime/manga.

[Ciel]

Forgive me if this seems completely obserd, I have minimal knowledge on this series.

My thoughts~

Madara Died, His blind twin lived in obscurity (with Zetsu) planning and scheming, in order to prolong his life (as he was aging) he used Obito's almost dead body to regenerate himself (Kind of in a Orochimaru way) Hence how he came to possess similarities with Kakashi's eye (Given to him by Obito). He would have also needed partial transplants because Obito was crushed.

He then was able to "Acquire" Izuna's eyes, Itachi killing him to aid "TOBI-MADARA" (also benefiting).

I threw this in. I had too.

Itachi only knew Tobi as Madara, and at first didn't have doubts to whom he was.

Apparently Sasuke was given Itachi's eyes, but I think this is more so the real Madaras eyes, because Itachi seemed to still have his eyes after the regeneration.

Eh... and what of the rinnigan, I'm unsure of a correct theory on why Madara would give someone those eyes. Unless the "Tobi-Madara" planned on using him solely to revive his brother. Then somehow merge himself with his brother.

My theories have a lot of holes in them, I must admit. Once my Naruto-Shippuuden knowledge base is bigger, then I would be able to properly understand the pros and cons of what I've written above.

As for the statements above this post, They definitely seem well thought through and could make a far deeper plot if this is in fact what is going to develop <3

[Leviathan]

Well it seems you are right when you said you still lack knowledge on the topic, but it's all right. But there was one point which caught my eyes.

Madara Died, His blind twin lived in obscurity (with Zetsu) planning and scheming, in order to prolong his life (as he was aging) he used Obito's almost dead body to regenerate himself (Kind of in a Orochimaru way) Hence how he came to possess similarities with Kakashi's eye (Given to him by Obito). He would have also needed partial transplants because Obito was crushed.

I have been thinking about something like this( excluding Madara's twin brother part) and you just said it.

This theory seems to be more solid than what I put forward in point 2 in my previous post. Here's what I wrote:

Then he would search for a random Uchiha so that even after the soul transplantation he would've access to the Sharingan. For all we know Tobi succeeded in this matter too and some how came upon Obito's dead body, saw the Sharingan and implanted in his right eye. That would explain two things:

i) The space-time ability in his right eye.

ii) His incapability on the use of the Mangekyo.

This is the part of point 2 which I wish to replace with this new theory. So here it is:

Tobi needed a new body. He found Obito's almost completely crushed dead body. He reconstructed this body with the help of Zetsu keeping the sharingan in the right eye intact. Once the reconstruction was done Tobi changed bodies. He then realized the absence of the sharingan in the left eye. He then killed a random uchiha and took his eyes.

In this way it would explain 3 things:

i) The space-time ability in his right eye.

ii) His incapability on the use of the Mangekyo Sharingan.

iii) Him wearing a mask which covered the left eye but not the right. Since the left eye was transplanted it couldn't be turned off and thus ate away chakra every moment.

Well I think the theory which I have been trying to give is complete now. I will edit post#4 now. If you find any flaws there please inform me.

[Blight2k10]

Come on Tobis gotta be Madara

[johnnylsx]

After reading naruto 592, I think it may be shishui ochicha. Maybe thats why sasuke (or itachi, can't fully remember) had a flash back?

uchiha*

[qwsxz]

it is not shishui...

[RikuoAmero]

After reading naruto 592, I think it may be shishui ochicha. Maybe thats why sasuke (or itachi, can't fully remember) had a flash back?

uchiha*

How can it be Shisui? Shisui lost his eyes, one to Danzo and then the other to Itachi. And its UCHIHA, not Ochicha.

[jam786a]

yh plus tobi was there b4 shisui