Getting Critique from Beta Readers

[† Emotional Outlet]

In the midst of editing my NaNovel and trying to save it from awfulness, I drafted a critique form for my potential betas to use or at least base their critiques on. I wanted to get as much feedback as I could from my betas as readers, not writers, so a lot of the questions I have are things that I think readers--who may not necessarily be writers--would be especially sensitive to. And it's just stuff I think about when I consume media, so there's that.

And I made sure to add sections for stuff they liked and enjoyed, because critiques shouldn't be just about stuff that sucks, haha.

Do you guys have any suggestions for things to add or remove from the form? Do you guys utilise betas? What do you want or expect from them? What do you to thank them for their time?

I read from a couple people they offer free signed copies of the book they beta'd. I thought that would be a pretty cool thing to do for people.

This was the conversation I had about the form with my slated first beta. I'm AG.

[14:49] AT: I can't say how long it would take though

[14:49] AG: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFZBdEZrc3g3YWlYVU1zLW4tR0Mxc2c6MQ

[14:49] AG: It looks like this

[14:49] AT: maybe weeks

[14:49] AG: Weeks

[14:49] AG: Really

[14:49] AG: They're not even hard questions

[14:49] AT: oh god I though it would be multiple choice

[14:49] AT: can you rephrase them with like a 1-10 scale

[14:49] AG: How would I make it multiple choice

[14:49] AT: or like strongly disagree - strongly agree

[14:50] AG: That's weaksauce

[14:50] AT: yeah

[14:50] AT: well I'll do the written response thing

[14:50] AG: You're going to be a terrible beta reader

[14:50] AT: they seem like reasonable answers

[14:50] AT: questions

[14:50] AT: the answers may not be reasonable at all

[14:50] AG: "YOU SMELL LIKE BUTT AND I HATE YOU"

[14:50] AG: For all of them

[...]

[15:06] AT: ok so I have this reader critique open in front of me

[15:06] AT: but these text boxes seem so abandoned and dilapidated

[15:06] AT: just completely empty

[15:06] AG: Do you find that distressing

[15:06] AT: I do

[15:06] AG: Like you have so much potential in front of you

[15:06] AG: And you don't even know

[15:07] AG: I don't know how much stuff you can cram into the smaller text boxes

[15:07] AT: It's just sitting there waiting for that spark to set the whole thing off

[15:07] AT: That novel shaped spark

[15:07] AG: Do you want a box to put your name in

[15:07] AG: Would that make you feel better

[15:07] AT: yes

[15:08] AG: I added a question asking how you are

[15:08] AG: It's like warm up questions

[15:09] AG: Like "Okay I can totally handle this"

[15:09] AG: And then suddenly

[15:09] AG: Critical thinking

[† Anras Rune]

I only just read this thread now and am curious. I mean, I've heard of beta testers for games, apps, beta movie goers(critic panelling tis called in the industry) and the likes, but I'm not sure what it entails for a book. Do you mean they are like your editor (without the obvious morbid hatred all writers feel towards their  editors until published) but only offering suggestions, or are they more like proof readers, scanning for misspellings, grammatical errors and fragments?

 

Or are they more like panelling in the movie industry, like I mentioned before? I've read through your critique form and it seems like the ones panellists use, but you mentioned that it is from the view of the reader, which differs from critic panelling as they are all industry men/women like producers, company men and the occasional film critic. 

 

I'd love for it too be explained a little more, cause it seems like a novel idea (*basks in his own magnificence due to his amazing pun*)...

 

EDIT: How did you do that spreadsheet btw, tis awesome! I never knew that Google Docs could do something so pretty...lol

Edited January 14, 2013 by Anras Rune

[† Emotional Outlet]

From your Google Drive you can create forms. It is pretty much the best thing ever and I love it, haha. I think it's pretty intuitive once you get into it--just select the options you want and go from there. You can make all kinds of different questions too, like multiple choice and the text inputs like I have.

 

Everyone seems to use betas differently, to include all of your examples, so I guess what they do is up to you and what you ask of them. The only thing that seems to run common for all those who use betas is they are the people who read a work before it is made available to the public.

 

I know some people use alphas, which is pretty much unthinkable for me. They're the people who read the first draft of a work--the literal first draft, before any self-editing is done by the writer. With how much I intend to change on this second draft, I can't fathom sending my first draft to my friend despite his assertions that he reads posts on the Internet and therefore nothing can melt his brain.

 

What I want from a beta, which doesn't ring true with everyone, is to know what the story makes people feel and think, rather than a dissertation on my technique. Which would be useful to be certain, since I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I doubt that's the kind of reaction every reader has when they read a book. I think deeper critiques will pop up as people stumble upon things that really get them going, so I don't want to force them to do that for every single aspect. I want to encourage those shallow, knee-jerk comments as well as some semblance of an explanation to accompany it, haha. This way I can take their reactions to mind and recraft the text in my own style rather than trying to adapt their suggested rewrites. It seems it would be easier on the beta.

 

What I want to do (at least this time around, as my process may later prove to be a total crock), is send my manuscript to one person and have them critique it.  Then, when I receive their response, I read over it, make changes where I am able (after a fair amount of creative angst), and then send it to another person to repeat the process. Some people do group critiques and let a bunch of people beta all at once, but that seems overwhelming. It might take a long time to do it one by one, but it should keep me focussed and make it easier to note where I'm still falling short. If someone points out that a character is flat and I try to rewrite them to be less flat, but the second critique from another person says the same character is flat even after the changes, then I know I still have work to do. I don't want to overwork my betas by making them read the book over and over, since they'll start to skip over errors too.

[† Anras Rune]

From your Google Drive you can create forms. It is pretty much the best thing ever and I love it, haha. I think it's pretty intuitive once you get into it--just select the options you want and go from there. You can make all kinds of different questions too, like multiple choice and the text inputs like I have.

 

Everyone seems to use betas differently, to include all of your examples, so I guess what they do is up to you and what you ask of them. The only thing that seems to run common for all those who use betas is they are the people who read a work before it is made available to the public.

 

I know some people use alphas, which is pretty much unthinkable for me. They're the people who read the first draft of a work--the literal first draft, before any self-editing is done by the writer. With how much I intend to change on this second draft, I can't fathom sending my first draft to my friend despite his assertions that he reads posts on the Internet and therefore nothing can melt his brain.

 

What I want from a beta, which doesn't ring true with everyone, is to know what the story makes people feel and think, rather than a dissertation on my technique. Which would be useful to be certain, since I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I doubt that's the kind of reaction every reader has when they read a book. I think deeper critiques will pop up as people stumble upon things that really get them going, so I don't want to force them to do that for every single aspect. I want to encourage those shallow, knee-jerk comments as well as some semblance of an explanation to accompany it, haha. This way I can take their reactions to mind and recraft the text in my own style rather than trying to adapt their suggested rewrites. It seems it would be easier on the beta.

 

What I want to do (at least this time around, as my process may later prove to be a total crock), is send my manuscript to one person and have them critique it.  Then, when I receive their response, I read over it, make changes where I am able (after a fair amount of creative angst), and then send it to another person to repeat the process. Some people do group critiques and let a bunch of people beta all at once, but that seems overwhelming. It might take a long time to do it one by one, but it should keep me focussed and make it easier to note where I'm still falling short. If someone points out that a character is flat and I try to rewrite them to be less flat, but the second critique from another person says the same character is flat even after the changes, then I know I still have work to do. I don't want to overwork my betas by making them read the book over and over, since they'll start to skip over errors too.

I see. So what you are suggesting is something much more personal in the sense that they are reading a much less polished product. I thought that you meant they read the finished product and critiqued it before a final edit. But I catch your drift now.

 

I must say it sounds like a good idea too me in truth. I rarely get past my initial draft of most stories because I can't stop editing. I am terrible for reading, rereading and then scrapping shit for no good reason, all the while trying not too slit my wrists for writing what I perceive as bad prose. :/ . So I suppose I might actually try this method of editing, instead of sticking with self critique the whole time and maybe at least give some of my side projects a chance. The one thing I'd ask is whether you prefer using friends or strangers?

 

I ask cause in my family I'm the only person that likes writing, out of my friends I'm the only one that writes (friends on here not included) as the rest are more artists or don't even read. And I don't know how comfortable I'd be giving my prose to a random denizen of the Internet. I mean, other than the people on here I really wouldn't be able to get much feedback from the people I know, and I know many would give me a good review just to stop any hurt feelings. Except maybe my brother, what a cruel little bugger he would be, lmao.

 

Also, when you give out your betas, do you give the entire text, or chunks and excerpts? I imagine you'd give the whole thing, but this again brings up my paranoiac trust issues on the subject. Bit like handing away a hundred dollar note to ask if its flawed.

[† Emotional Outlet]

I am trying to be more open about sharing my work, so it is definitely a step out of my comfort zone. For this project, I intend to keep things within a personal group of friends. Faceless Internet people, while more honest, also seem to be needlessly ruthless and crude if not properly selected. It's not something I want to deal with right now, haha. I'm not especially close to my family, though I'm sure they will just tell me everything I do is great and generally prefer not to step on my toes.

 

My first beta is a friend I've known since tech school and keep in regular contact with, and he's the one that said he'll read anything, so it's a baby step for me. Several others who use betas also seem to have a beta who isn't especially ruthless specifically for the purpose of easing them into the mindset of editing. One person said they had a friend who loves everything they write--to be so blessed, haha. But a few people I'm hoping to have beta for me are varied in their experience and talents--I have a few writer friends I'd like to have beta for me, as well some others who are more voracious readers than anything.

 

There are a few communities for people seeking betas, so I imagine if you are to pull them from the Internet, it wouldn't be too difficult to chat them up a bit to see what they're like before asking them to beta.

 

And I've had some concern myself about the random theft, especially since I printed off my manuscript at Staples a while ago. It is more than a bit of conceit on my part, as though my unpolished drafts are so brilliant that someone would try to steal them. Regardless, it isn't as large a problem as one may fear. I've heard tell that big publishing houses, upon receiving query letters from more cautious authors who fret about potential theft--even by the publisher themselves--tend to toss those queries into the garbage.

 

You could send betas a PDF vice a Word document or similar of the work, such that they would have to retype the entire thing should anyone be so stupid as to try to steal someone's manuscript.

 

As it stands, there are a lot of books, a lot of ideas, and a lot of unfinished manuscripts floating around in the world. There are more profitable and saner items to steal than an unfinished novel, haha. It's a simultaneously comforting and saddening thought, but it keeps me grounded. As they say, give five authors the same basic premise for a book and at the end of it, you'll have five completely different novels.