Goku vs Superman

[Krogothwolf]

Superman gets stronger the more and more exposed to Yellow Sun, it's a cop out of a way to increase his strength and power but it's the truth. in DC One Million Superman makes everything previous look like a child.

So yeah, Superman gets stronger just not through the normal way of training. One of the many reasons Superman is the lamest Deus Ex Machina hero.

The problem with saying Goku has no limits is, there is nothing really there to confirm or deny it, it's just something you assume cause he does keep getting stronger, but there could be a point were a Saiyan can no longer improve, were as Superman it is actually said that his abilities are unlimited.

Also, there are so many forms of Superman it's silly, but yes, there are really only 2 versions of Superman that can challenge Goku, Pre-Crisis who would win, and Post-Crisis who would be a even match, though, only once because if he beat Goku the first time, Goku would come back stronger quicker then Superman's strength would grow.

[Nero D. Ace]

That's just what Vegeta thought ... that a Super Saiyan was the limit. And look how wrong he turned out.

The fact is that even IF he lost the first time (and that's a big IF), Goku will enter that Hyperbolic Time Chamber of his and go Super Saiyan 5.

Also, if you're pulling out all the stops for Superman, I'd like to do the same for Goku. Give him a tail and transform him into the Giant Ape. Then what?

Superman would get crushed like a banana.

[Koby]

Also, if you're pulling out all the stops for Superman, I'd like to do the same for Goku. Give him a tail and transform him into the Giant Ape. Then what?

Superman would get crushed like a banana.

I'm pretty sure it was stated you could only spend up to 2 years time within the Chamber. Meaning 2 days. Goku and Gohan spent only 1 day while Future Trunks and Vegeta used up all their time.

Also to go Super Saiyan 4, their tails grew back anyways, although Ozaru, even Golden Ozaru was weaker than Super Saiyan 4. Goku had to take control of the Golden Ape in order to transform into Super Saiyan 4 the first time around.

Therefore, while having size, the Ape is actually less powerful, a lot slower, and over all not even worth messing with.

After Goku went Super Saiyan they started neglecting Kaio Ken, however I suspect that just because you transform it doesn't null and void the technique. While never proven, it could be quite possible to use Kaio Ken as a Super Saiyan 4 to increase strength by over 20x.

[Nero D. Ace]

yeah, but what about Baby Vegeta? i'm not really sure what form that was and my memory is a bit fuzzy because i haven't seen GT in a long long while but i think even after he went SSJ4, he had some trouble fending Baby off and needed help from the rest of them to give him their energy or something like that.

Although, Superman would never be able to handle things like that.

New approach, How would Superman go about trying to beat Cell? he has nothing in his arsenal that can completely obliterate every cell of Cell, and Gohan beat Cell and now Goku is stronger than Gohan, so Goku can beat Cell. Hence, Goku can beat Superman.

[Krogothwolf]

The Goku vs Post-Crisis Superman would be far more even then a big IF for superman winning Iki. But, if Superman beat Goku and injured him enough, he wouldn't really need any mega training to come back and beat him, because he would be that much more stronger after healing, whereas Superman's strength increases at a much slower pace when compared to that instant boost.

They actually did use KaioKen and Super Saiyan together in the filler arc against Pikkon if I remember correctly. But they never used it during canon sections. Maybe there's a limit for it?

As for Baby Vegeta, they hard Majuub fight him, then SSJ4 Goku fight him, then Super Baby Golden Gaint Ape vs SSJ4 Goku, which was actually a stand still, though when they were repleneshed Super Baby Giant Ape was able to beat SSJ4 Goku there, then majuub beat up his insides, The other Saiyans gave Goku their power to revitalize him and he then beat Baby Vegeta.

Again, since Post-Crisis Superman would be a match for Goku as they are at the end of DB, he would be able to handle Giant Ape Baby Vegeta. Since the end Goku is Stronger then the Goku who fought Baby Vegeta.

Superman would be able to beat Cell, he can(though rarely does) actually expand his heat vision to beyond the normal one were it's the size of his eyes, he's actually expanded it to being larger then that of a person. He just rarely does it. Or he could beat Cell into pudding then super speed him into the sun and see if he can come back from being melted by then.

Cell bugged me because, if he could come back from being exploded, why didn't he just explode himself a few more times so he could become stronger to beat Gohan? He did have the Saiyan characteristics of coming back stronger after near death/death trait.

[onenewday]

lolz goku vs. super lolz no doubt its goku will be the one standing at the end.

[Mordeth_Kai]

you keep stressing unlimited, I have a problem with that as it is too undefined. Just because there is no way to measure a thing does not make it unlimited. We might call the molecules of H20 in the ocean unlimited because we have no way of measuring it, but it is still a finite quantity. I think it is safer to say that it was impossible to measure pre-crisis superman's abilities than to say they were unlimited. In early DBZ they had devices to measure a persons power, there is to my knowledge no equivalent in the superman universe, as such it is a misnomer to call his abilities unlimited. I would like to thank the guy who showed the superman comics to give us a better idea of superman's pre-crisis abilities as we have been underestimating him. An important note is superman destroying a solar system with a sneeze, while his lack of control goes a long way in proving a lack of training and skill, it does give a good measure of his power as there was a definite limit to the damage done by it. Taking that into account, lets use it as a measure of physical strength and multiply the force it would take to destroy a solar system and multiply it by a hundred and say that's the force of his punch. Now to get a relevant estimate of goku's power lets take vegeta destroying a planet for fun on his way to earth before his confrontation with goku, which is before goku's confrontation with frieza, which was before cell, which was before majin buu. Now, lets take into account that a major part of goku's training is in controlling his power to do precisely what he intends, i.e. he could use a beam to put a hole through a planet the size of a penny but with enough force to destroy the planet 3 times over, or he could destroy a planet with just barely enough force to do so. I think it is safe to say that by the time he beat frieza goku could destroy a solar system with a beam, but barely so, as such I think its safe to say that pre-crisis superman could indeed defeat frieza without breaking a sweat. Now lets say that goku became five times more powerful by the time he got back to earth from defeating frieza, then lets say he multiplied that strength another ten times during the cell games where he died, which makes 20 times the power it would take to destroy a solar system, as such pre-crises superman would beat cell in terms of raw power, then lets take into account the training goku took in the afterlife before majin buu came into the picture and say he became 10 times stronger than before which puts us at 200 times the amount of force needed to destroy a solar system, however goku never used his full power or ever revealed how much stronger he became during the afterlife so it is debatable. by these calculations, by the time majin buu comes on to the scene goku is probably about twice as powerful as pre-crisis superman which is to say it would be an interesting fight, and superman probably is not as strong as majin buu and definitely not as strong as kid buu. You guys are welcome to disagree with my measurements, as I said, there is no real way of gauging pre-crisis superman's strength because they lacked the ability, but based on the bit of information we have I believe that this is a fair and accurate comparison

[blueymay]

Goku is Superman's kryptonite

[KametsuNewMembe]

Goku since he can be revived with dragonballs and become stronger after fighting.

[skullking123]

Goku. Dont think superman can handle a high energy beam blast that could easily destroy planets

[Avith]

This wouldn't even be fair. Maybe Superman could have a shot at beating him like in the saiyan saga, if he didn't allow Goku to gather his energy, and went all out from the start. If were talking dragonball Goku, yeah superman would win there. In db goku is more like a person with supernatural abilities. In DBZ, goku is .... just godly compared to Superman especialy after the 100x gravity training in the Frieza saga. Then shortly after he learns Super Saiyan and Instant Transmission. In super saiyan form, I doubt any thing superman has could even damage him and almost anything ss goku would use (from a single punch to super kamehameha) would severly injure or kill Superman. People go on about how fast superman is, but instant transmission doesn't even have a speed for superman to surpass. It's basically teleporting! Besides those points, remember Goku has been pushed pretty hard against other powerful characters in DBZ and DBGT. He's used to fighting other strong guys, and is an experienced fighter. Superman is not. Superman from what I notice rarely deals with any real challenge. And for those who say the only way to hurt superman is with kryptonite, apparently haven't seen Doomsday. Also saiyans can breath in space just like superman.

This is just my thoughts, but I don't see how it's possible for superman to win. However if you want to be very realistic about the situation, I doubt these two would even fight even if they did meet in the first place. They both fight for justice.

[griffinheart]

Goku would win~ :]

[PrinceDeville]

goku got it

[UnknownSoldier9]

I say it would have to be goku. Goku has a lot more endurance fighting experience then super man. I dont know much about super man but im sure he hasnt been in a fight that lasted near as long as the fights goku has been in where he is near death. Goku has power and experience. even if superman and goku were tied in strenght i think goku would win because goku has the trained mind of a fighter. I dont think superman does.

[AaronScythe]

Comparisons

Both immune to bullets

Both super strong

Both shoot lasers and crap

Both have limited flight time in space

Only goku stands his ground from a gigantic explosion

Only goku can freaking teleport

End all though, both need to breathe still, and if all else fails, goku can teleport them both into distant space, let go of superman, and then teleport back.

[Mordeth_Kai]

you guys should really look through the older posts on the thread it would help a lot. In the beginning all us anime fans didn't even have to think about superman getting beaten to a bloody pulp by goku, but evidence was brought in by people who bothered to do the research and we seriously underpowered pre-crisis superman, things like him sneezing and destroying a galaxy on accident, not a small feat, or him being sent flying by a supernova but only slightly fazed, and him crossing to the ends of the universe in a matter of seconds, the two are more comparable than u realize and more than I like to admit, but there it is. While I agree that by the end of DBZ goku would win, it would not be as small and simple a fight as u might think

[Koby]

you guys should really look through the older posts on the thread it would help a lot. In the beginning all us anime fans didn't even have to think about superman getting beaten to a bloody pulp by goku, but evidence was brought in by people who bothered to do the research and we seriously underpowered pre-crisis superman, things like him sneezing and destroying a galaxy on accident, not a small feat, or him being sent flying by a supernova but only slightly fazed, and him crossing to the ends of the universe in a matter of seconds, the two are more comparable than u realize and more than I like to admit, but there it is. While I agree that by the end of DBZ goku would win, it would not be as small and simple a fight as u might think

They tried to make Superman seem powerful by underpowering Goku. Or at least that is what it seemed like with everyone of Kro's posts. Honestly as I said over and over again, of all the Superman versions I have seen, a closer match up in strength would be Krillin vs. Superman and even then I may end up siding with Krillin by the end of the Android Saga.

People can say what they want, but there is no way to really measure each characters strength accurately. We can only judge what the characters were able to do and compare it with the others.

As someone stated before, Vegeta at his measly power level of like 13K destroyed a planet with a beam from only one of his fingers. That was in one of the first few episodes of Dragon Ball Z. By the end of the series Goku and Vegeta's power level was in the trillions.

At the time of the Saiyan saga when we first met Vegeta he was already past anything I have ever seen Superman capable of handling.

Simple fact is... Goku is god, and you can't beat God.

He has no limits, and if for some reason he did lose he'd just come back even stronger every time till he did win.

[shadowboxing89]

what about goku vs the whole justice league

[† Irish]

Goku... Even if superman beats him once or twice, He'll come back twice as strong as before. Plus as Koby said, Goku is a god... Plus goku always pushes his boundary and evolves... So he is the ultimate being...

[bre-ek-ek-er]

hehehe!!! superman is nothing against super saiyan guko...