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Moodkiller

Query re: Content Distro Rules and Guidelines

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I have 2 questions/concerns/feedbacks regarding the following 2 points:

Should be noted as well that this is referring to the dual audio rules, but could be applied to the others I guess.

Quote

 

  • Thread titles must be tagged appropriately with at minimum the following tags (please always use brackets [] when listing tags):
    • [File Host(s)] [Release Group] Name of Show [Source Media] [Audio Tracks]
      • [Audio Tracks] - This should include the codec of the audio track(s) and their channel count. Channel count can be omitted if stereo (2.0). This should also include a final tag denoting the section (this may seem redundant, but it is useful in notifications since they do not always include the board). Examples:
        • [AAC 5.1 | FLAC 5.1] [Dual Audio] - | denotes the difference between 720p and 1080p versions of the release.
        • [FLAC] [Subtitled]
        • [AC3 5.1] [Dubbed]

 

Regarding the [Audio Tracks], I do feel this is indeed redundant information - by "anime standards", one can assume that if the title contains '1080p', then the audio tracks will be FLAC, and similarly, if the title contains '720p', the audio tracks will be AAC/AC3. To me, having the [Audio Tracks] tag is just adding more information to the title that will most likely be listed in the main post description. At this point, there might as well be a [Subtitles] tag as well with the groups name <-- this is a dumb idea, pls don't...

 

The other issue I see arising from this is what happens if there are different audio codes used for each resolution. I.e in the case where there is no FLAC track available for the 1080p. Using this example "[AAC 5.1 | FLAC 5.1] [Dual Audio]", would it now have to be [AAC 5.1 | FLAC 5.1 & AAC 5.1] [Dual Audio]?

 

Also, what is meant by "(this may seem redundant, but it is useful in notifications since they do not always include the board)"?

 

The second point I want to address:

Quote
  • Examples of valid thread titles:
    • [MULTI] [CTR] Red Garden [DVD 480p][AC3 5.1] [Dual Audio] - providing a worthwhile release of obscurity | STATUS: A NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES
    • [MULTI] [SCY] In This Corner of the World (BD 1080p Hi10 FLAC) [Dual-Audio]

Absurdly long titles. "- providing a worthwhile release of obscurity | STATUS: A NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES" doesn't add anything useful to the title, compared to the beginning part "[MULTI] [CTR] Red Garden [DVD 480p] ..." If you really want to add that in, then I would do what you normally do in your posts @Catar and put "- providing a worthwhile release of obscurity | STATUS: A NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES" as the first line in the topic post so that it appears under the title in the forum boards or in the Similar Content section.

For example, this:

JzE5w8B.png

Becomes:

kXIwros.png

 

IMO this just keeps the sub forums nice and clean and consistent and easy to read. I feel the only worthwhile thing to have extra in the title is a "status" field. I.e ~~STATUS: 04/33~.

 

Finally, something else I don't believe I read, and this may be "obvious", but what are the consequences if one doesn't follow said posted rules? For example, if one doesn't add the [Audio Tracks] tag to their titles? Asking for a friend.

 

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2 minutes ago, Moodkiller said:

Regarding the [Audio Tracks], I do feel this is indeed redundant information - by "anime standards", one can assume that if the title contains '1080p', then the audio tracks will be FLAC, and similarly, if the title contains '720p', the audio tracks will be AAC/AC3. To me, having the [Audio Tracks] tag is just adding more information to the title that will most likely be listed in the main post description. At this point, there might as well be a [Subtitles] tag as well with the groups name <-- this is a dumb idea, pls don't...

This is fair. The audio track requirement is actually a holdover from the old title guidelines, and not my own obsession with lossless tracks. I'll remove this requirement (though it's always allowed as additional information).

 

4 minutes ago, Moodkiller said:

Also, what is meant by "(this may seem redundant, but it is useful in notifications since they do not always include the board)"?

 

The Notifications menu does not always include what board a topic is located in. The initial thread posting does, but any subsequent notifications for the thread won't include it. This was an issue in the past for me when we had threads for a show both in Subtitled and in Dual Audio for the same show, and I got notifications for both and didn't know which one was which =P

 

It's not super important, but it's useful to have, and it makes parsing out threads easier since we don't need to also scan for the board ID; we can just use the thread title.

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Moodkiller said:

Absurdly long titles. "- providing a worthwhile release of obscurity | STATUS: A NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES" doesn't add anything useful to the title, compared to the beginning part "[MULTI] [CTR] Red Garden [DVD 480p] ..." If you really want to add that in, then I would do what you normally do in your posts @Catar and put "- providing a worthwhile release of obscurity | STATUS: A NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES" as the first line in the topic post so that it appears under the title in the forum boards or in the Similar Content section.

Long titles are allowed. Might seem a bit biased, but the only important part of the title is the beginning. As long as extra information and comments in a title are after the important information, the rest gets cut off on small screens so I don't see it as a detriment. In addition, some information like number of episodes completed is useful to see on the index listing. It means you can see how far a project is without having to enter the thread. 

 

I can see an argument to be made for shorter titles for a cleaner index, but as long as the beginning is consistent I don't think it's a big deal personally. I could be persuaded otherwise, though, if more people feel that way.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Moodkiller said:

Finally, something else I don't believe I read, and this may be "obvious", but what are the consequences if one doesn't follow said posted rules? For example, if one doesn't add the [Audio Tracks] tag to their titles? Asking for a friend.

 

for now, no consequences at all. I'll just be posting small reminders for any posts that don't include sufficient information. After a week or two, if a new thread is posted and doesn't have the minimum information, you'll be informed and given time to fix your title. If it hasn't been fixed after 24 hours or so, it'll be removed, at the mod's discretion.

 

there will never be any warnings or bans issued for failing to follow content distro guidelines. At the absolute worst, you may be restricted from posting Content Distro threads, but you'll never be at risk of losing your account or being unable to post elsewhere on Kametsu (unless you break spamming rules or other global rules, of course).

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Titles should be restricted to how Kametsu/LY does them, with the obvious exception of release group. Our (VideoSource Resolution Hi10/Hi444pp/HEVC Audio) [Dual Audio] should be sufficient information; obviously adding the release group at the start, unless the post is by the uploader.

The file hosting seems unnecessary; you'll find out additional information in the actual post. Posting everything ever including addition status info, or whatever, in the title is not helping our community at conversing. They'll see what they want in the title and never actually open the post and maybe say something.

 

I get long titles are cut off on smaller displays but, it still looks like a ton of unnecessary info in a title. It's a title, not the start of a novel.

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5 minutes ago, NeutralHatred said:

Titles should be restricted to how Kametsu/LY does them, with the obvious exception of release group. Our (VideoSource Resolution Hi10/Hi444pp/HEVC Audio) [Dual Audio] should be sufficient information; obviously adding the release group at the start, unless the post is by the uploader.

The file hosting seems unnecessary; you'll find out additional information in the actual post. Posting everything ever including addition status info, or whatever, in the title is not helping our community at conversing. They'll see what they want in the title and never actually open the post and maybe say something.

 

I get long titles are cut off on smaller displays but, it still looks like a ton of unnecessary info in a title. It's a title, not the start of a novel.

Specific file hosts have been one of the most frequent requests (i.e. requesting things be mirrored to MEGA or whatever), so including them in a title helps with searches. Besides that, distribution options are so inconsistent here that including which method a particular uploader uses is helpful to people searching as well.

 

Kametsu/LostYears threads are not in Content Distro and are not bound by these rules, so all those threads don't need to change. They have standardized distribution though, so it's a bit different.

 

 

It should be noted that content distro is not intended as a discussion area beyond the individual project in question. Information in the title will not adversely affect discussion in any way, as anyone who would just read the title and not open the thread wouldn't be likely to post in it anyway. I would think my own threads are more than enough evidence that including all information in a title doesn't hurt discussion, since my releases tend to be some of the longest threads out there, even for some of my shows that are released 100% complete with no further work done.

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I agree with overly long titles being redundant. If you insist on introducing a minimum amount of information needed, it’s only fair to have some kind of “maximum” as well. Anything beyond the relevant tags is largely pointless and doesn’t add anything of worth (exceptions being “STATUS:” etc.)

 

Those kinds of comments/jokes should be placed in the thread itself, not the title.

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You can have your cake, but you can't eat it too.

 

Well in regards to American Cartoons, the majority is Amazon or iTunes untouched WEB-DLs, and groups don't really matter or change from season to season. You'd end up with 6+ groups on a single series. Which can end up being a pain to list everything. That and a lot of them have other users posting links throughout the thread on various hosts. It's just overall a lot less regulated and the release groups mean a lot less in terms of how much difference would be between one release and another, since unlike anime it only relies on source ripped from and not subtitle work, etc... and since most cartoons never see a Blu-ray release, you never see actual proper encodes done, just direct rips.

 

And it seems things like this haven't been updated to reflect any changes done: https://kametsu.com/forum/66-distro-rules-user-indexes/#elForumRules (eh guess you gotta actually click the link for it to pop up, can't direct link, click on Content Distro Rules & Posting Etiquette)

 

I've considered paying for the "Hide Links" app for the forum, where you can use the Hide tag on the download links in specific and a user only gets access to them in the thread after they've either clicked Like on the post or commented at least once in the thread. It would boost user participation, but would it be any beneficial gain is another question. It's likely to end up in the same loop that requiring more posts did previously. Though at the same time, it would also help figure out which accounts are being used to leak posts to reddit as we can see exactly which users have either clicked like or posted in the thread and narrow it down some. So there is at least some other benefits to be had from it.... but it would also be something uploaders would have to adopt to using if it was implemented and idk how some feel about such a thing.

 

As for "Repeat threads for identical content will be removed. If you are posting a scene release, P2P release or otherwise public release, please make sure it has not already been posted on the distro boards. If you are posting your own rips/encodes, you never need to worry about this rule." There has been cases where a user wanted to mirror an existing upload but the thread starter who posted the release originally didn't want to share the spotlight in his thread and threw a fit about others sharing links in his thread. So we've just pretty much allowed co-existing threads at uploaders discretion, while usually recommending sharing the mirrored links in the original thread but with permission from the thread starter. But I do understand why having multiple threads can seem a bit silly.

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10 hours ago, Koby said:

I've considered paying for the "Hide Links" app for the forum, where you can use the Hide tag on the download links in specific and a user only gets access to them in the thread after they've either clicked Like on the post or commented at least once in the thread. It would boost user participation, but would it be any beneficial gain is another question.

Just my 2 cents... but that feature sounds like a nightmare to me. People who are not socially-inclined to begin with are not likely to contribute anything of value if they are required to participate. I usually Follow all the threads for the releases I download so I can keep tabs on any further developments with the release, such as patches, or any meaningful conversation I may find interesting and might want to reply to. But it drives me crazy when I get a notification and it's just someone saying "Thanks" with no other contribution to the conversation. Especially when it's a 2-year-old thread and the original creator might not even be active anymore. I don't consider that to be "user participation", or at least not desirable participation. I wish there was a way to discourage one-word replies while still making the uploader feel appreciated. This is why I usually stick with the Like/Thanks button rather than making a reply, unless I have something else to say in addition to "thanks".

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As just a lowly user I agree with with some of what was said.  Some of the thread names are too long.  The file host and audio information are in the thread and I don't think they need to be listed in the title. If you feel otherwise I think they should be at the end of a thread title because its the least important information.  At the very least I don't think it is any sort of barrier to opening a thread someone might be interested in and looking at it.  Having it only inside the thread wouldn't prevent searches either.  I feel like multi isn't a super helpful description because I'm more accustomed to it meaning multiple language subs than file hosts and it gives zero indication if your favorite file host is used.  If you keep the file hosts in the title listing them all by name at the end of a title is more useful I think.

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On 3/18/2018 at 1:48 AM, NeutralHatred said:

The file hosting seems unnecessary; you'll find out additional information in the actual post.

On 3/20/2018 at 11:26 AM, Cho² said:

The file host and audio information are in the thread and I don't think they need to be listed in the title.

Completely agreed on the file hosts. Just look at the Cartoons & Animation Content Distro right now - just about every single topic starts with [MEGA]! How in the world is this not detrimental, let alone useful!?

@Catar: that's 3 users now who are against this, and probably many more among the silent majority. Obviously it's your call, but I would strongly suggest considering changing the guidelines to discourage, instead of encourage or even require, file hosts being listed in titles.

 

I would also suggest making release tags in titles clearly optional, but such a change might have detrimental effects for some topics so I'm not so sure about that one.

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22 minutes ago, mcmxcixmm said:

Completely agreed on the file hosts. Just look at the Cartoons & Animation Content Distro right now - just about every single topic starts with [MEGA]! How in the world is this not detrimental, let alone useful!?

@Catar: that's 3 users now who are against this, and probably many more among the silent majority. Obviously it's your call, but I would strongly suggest considering changing the guidelines to discourage, instead of encourage or even require, file hosts being listed in titles.

 

I would also suggest making release tags in titles clearly optional, but such a change might have detrimental effects for some topics so I'm not so sure about that one.

there is an upcoming rules change soon, and removing the requirement for filehost is a part of it. This is an old rule that was carried over from previous rules, and we've since determined it is definitely unnecessary.

 

I'd disagree on it being detrimental, but I don't think it's useful anymore either, so it will be removed as a requirement (and hasn't really been enforced for a while anyway).

 

 

At the moment, three release tags will still be required in thread titles:

  • Resolution (marked either by full dimensions, i.e. 1920x1080p, or simply by the vertical resolution, i.e. 1080p).
  • Media source (WEB, WEBRip, WEB-DL, DVD, BluRay/BD, TV/HDTV, etc).
  • Release group tag. The release group tag will be optional in the Cartoons section, but required in all Anime sections.

These are the three most commonly searched terms in any of the distro boards, and greatly aid users in finding content, so all will be required in thread titles.

 

 

feedback is always welcomed! let me know if you have any other suggestions.

Edited by Catar

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Just now, Catar said:

there is an upcoming rules change soon, and removing the requirement for filehost is a part of it. This is an old rule that was carried over from previous rules, and we've since determined it is definitely unnecessary.

 

I'd disagree on it being detrimental, but I don't think it's useful anymore either, so it will be removed as a requirement (and hasn't really been enforced for a while anyway).

 

 

At the moment, three release tags will still be required in thread titles:

  • Resolution (marked either by full dimensions, i.e. 1920x1080p, or simply by the vertical resolution, i.e. 1080p).
  • Media source (WEB, WEBRip, WEB-DL, DVD, BluRay/BD, TV/HDTV, etc).
  • Release group tag

These are the three most commonly searched terms in any of the distro boards, and greatly aid users in finding content, so all will be required in thread titles.

 

 

feedback is always welcomed! let me know if you have any other suggestions.

I'm glad that it is being fixed!

 

If the release group tag is still required, then it should be clarified what to do if there are numerous tags for the files linked in a single topic. Or if there are no tags at all (ISOs and direct downloads, for example). Because right now the rule makes very little sense in those cases.

 

Also, what if the releaser chooses to remain anonymous? [Unknown] seems silly in general, and rather inappropriate in this case.

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Just now, mcmxcixmm said:

I'm glad that it is being fixed!

 

If the release group tag is still required, then it should be clarified what to do if there are numerous tags for the files linked in a single topic. Or if there are no tags at all (ISOs and direct downloads, for example). Because right now the rule makes very little sense in those cases.

 

Also, what if the releaser chooses to remain anonymous? [Unknown] seems silly in general, and rather inappropriate in this case.

sorry, you caught me right before I edited it. We're separating rules a little between anime and cartoons, since the release tag is far more important in one than the other.

 

In anime, group tags will always be required, since it denotes the fansubber who made it. There's not really such a thing as anonymous here, and picking fansubbers for shows is pretty important. 

 

In cartoons, group tags will not be required anymore. If you're just posting straight WEB-DLs all from the same group, it'd be appreciated if you include it in the thread title (protip: if you're just posting scene/p2p releases, you can literally paste the release name into the thread title and you auto-fill all requirements. easy mode.), but given how much a show can vary between seasons, it's become a bit silly and doesn't actually help anymore. Now that I'm actually subscribed to the cartoons board and watching how that community interacts, I'm learning a lot about how to write rules for that section. Bear with me here, please.

 

As for your final point: I don't think this is a valid concern, to be honest. If you're filesharing, you've already lost your anonymity full stop. However, tags are still very important. The number of random old files I have floating around without tags is frankly quite irritating. It makes it nearly impossible to source them properly. All files should be tagged. If you really wish to (try to) stay anonymous, you could just make up a random tag for each new file release. Anything to differentiate your files from others.

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Awesome! Sounds like the rules are going to be modernized well.

 

1 minute ago, Catar said:

As for your final point: I don't think this is a valid concern, to be honest. If you're filesharing, you've already lost your anonymity full stop. However, tags are still very important. The number of random old files I have floating around without tags is frankly quite irritating. It makes it nearly impossible to source them properly. All files should be tagged. If you really wish to (try to) stay anonymous, you could just make up a random tag for each new file release. Anything to differentiate your files from others.

 

For me personally, I have to say it is a very valid concern. There is an enormous difference between being just some user on a non-mainstream website such as this one, and having your tagged files potentially redistributed far and wide such that your contribution is uniquely known to anyone who ever comes across them - anywhere!

 

Even choosing a random tag doesn't help with the unique part much, but I don't see how it's much more useful than having no tag anyways. It could get quite confusing...

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@mcmxcixmm

Rules have now been officially updated with those changes. Also, for future rules updates, you may want to subscribe to the Distro rules thread here. Whenever new updates are made, I'll make sure I comment there for anyone who wants to be pinged about it. (hopefully that's never, but we all know how catar projects go.)

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