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RegorTheGreat

Can RWBY get its home in the Anime Section?

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16 minutes ago, RegorTheGreat said:

I guess I'll just need to call RWBY an "American made anime-like series"...or maybe take out "American made" and simplify it to "Anime-like animation" so that it would be more universal to others, such as "Exaella".

"Animesque" =P

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On 3/22/2018 at 8:12 PM, Catar said:

"Animesque" =P

Lol.  I've never put so much thought into this subject before...  For American made adult cartoon/animation shows, such as South Park and Archer, I've never really known what to call them.  I've always just called them shows like any other TV show.  I've never had to describe them before because everyone knows what they are.  But that question for categorizing anime definitely plays a part in my categorization.  I guess American made animation isn't nearly as diverse as Anime is.  We pretty much have 90% all animation as cartoon or whatever we would call the very popular CG Animation from Pixar an other studios that are made for kids.  Quick search I found Wikipedia describes Archer as "Adult Animated SitCom".   Arg, I had to look up "Cartoon" now.  "Cartoon" as a definition has changed over time as it originally wasn't referred to animation at all.  "Cartoon" doesn't appear to be used anymore for modern American animation, but seems to just refer to "two-dimensional illustrations".  Wikipedia describes all modern day "Cartoons" as "Animated Series/Movies".  Oh well, this might be a bit off subject here.  Sorry. 

 

I guess the idea of trying to put RWBY into the Anime section was the wrong way of going about fixing what I though should change.  Instead, maybe changing the term "Cartoon" would be the more accurate solution.  But what could it be changed to in order to keep it simple and properly identify?  "Animated Animations"...lol?  I can't really think of any single way to define the category that would include "Cartoons", "Animated TV", "Animated Movies", "Adult Animated...", "Anime-Style Animation", etc.  Unfortunately, it appears "Cartoon" is just the simplest, albeit not being very accurate.

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I'm not trying to be an ass about anything on this subject, everyone has their own opinions and that's cool and I respect that. To me though, only those shows made in Japan count as anime to me as 'anime' is a special term for me meaning they come from Japan and were great, and done in that style. Personally, no I wouldn't want to see non Japanese shows end up being called anime because it starts to make the term less special, and if a few shows get a pass how long until more and more want that same pass. I am not trying to offend someone with these following examples because if you like them then that is cool, I just don't. If more and more shows start getting a pass and being labeled as anime, how long until cartoons like Spongebob or Annoying Orange gets labeled as anime?

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1 hour ago, thedoctor2014 said:

I'm not trying to be an ass about anything on this subject, everyone has their own opinions and that's cool and I respect that. To me though, only those shows made in Japan count as anime to me as 'anime' is a special term for me meaning they come from Japan and were great, and done in that style. Personally, no I wouldn't want to see non Japanese shows end up being called anime because it starts to make the term less special, and if a few shows get a pass how long until more and more want that same pass. I am not trying to offend someone with these following examples because if you like them then that is cool, I just don't. If more and more shows start getting a pass and being labeled as anime, how long until cartoons like Spongebob or Annoying Orange gets labeled as anime?

I totally respect your opinion. And, you are exactly correct about the "if" scenario for other shows which is why I feel there would be (or maybe is) the need for specific requirements to be met for the label to apply. Right now we basically have two sites that are the authoritative entities who decide what falls in the category of "anime".  Do they follow the same standard as you by "if made in Japan"?

Where do you draw the line between video from Japan?  Death Note live action...clearly not an anime, but would you possibly file that under your anime collection?  Animation itself has changed quite a bit over time to 3D CGI and will continue to change as live action video contains more CGI to where they will probably merge.  It's the basis of this type of modernization of technology that can change what defines what and a Kobe Beef patty on a bun gets called a hamburger. Will the definition of "anime" change with the times or will new terminology be created to accurately recategorize sub genres and new design methods for video production? 

...just something to think about. And, once again, I've started thinking too much into this! Lol. Sorry...  :-P

(I'm getting a little bored at work...which is really rare)

Edited by RegorTheGreat
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If you mean the Netflix Death Note movie, I loved it  but I wouldn't really consider it anime much like the new Ghost in the Shell movie. More like based off an anime or something. Now live action movies from Japan, I wouldn't exactly call them anime, but I personally have a folder called J-Live for all my fansub live shows and would relate them to anime while not exactly be anime. :D

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1 minute ago, thedoctor2014 said:

If you mean the Netflix Death Note movie, I loved it  but I wouldn't really consider it anime much like the new Ghost in the Shell movie. More like based off an anime or something. Now live action movies from Japan, I wouldn't exactly call them anime, but I personally have a folder called J-Live for all my fansub live shows and would relate them to anime while not exactly be anime. :D

Exactly my point!  (I think)  B|

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I just thought of a great idea.  Anime is Japanese Animation.  So a new term we can use (instead of Anime-esk, etc...) can be "Animo" that we can freely standardize as a term for any Anime Style-like video no matter the location of development that has similarity or design purposefully to be like Anime.  "Animo" is short for "Animated Motion Video", but shortening in a way to very closely resemble "Anime" which matches the goal of what it represents similarity to, but not limited to.  Basically, a more adult themed animation that is normally designed by using back end 3D modeling but overlay art style by use of hand drawn, digital coloring, and other techniques to make it not look like digitally created video...but utilizing technology and 3D models to help enhance and speed up the production of an artistic style video...the way anime is.

 

So I would like to hereby coin the term "Animo" for shows like RWBY and Exaella as they really don't seem to fit in the category of cartoon.  Another movie I have always felt it to be more like anime than cartoon was Titan A.E..  I don't normally take much interest in American made animations, but for some reason Titan A.E. didn't give me that same feel that all the others do...just like RWBY!  And, well, Exaella is clearly an anime that was just produced in Russia instead of Japan...so it clearly needs a place to hold the closest possible relation to anime.  Oh, a there are a few others I feel need this title (if they aren't considered anime, which I don't think they do...) including Godzilla Monster Planet [Trilogy], the Castlevania series (which I think is an excellent series...can't wait for the next season), and some others...

 

Sorry for bringing this old thread I started, and thought we fully concluded, back up.  But I had one of those weird mornings waking up and just having this thought in my head and I thought it was a great idea.  So I needed to write it down.

 

Please feel free to share your thoughts on this.  If you think it's totally dumb, that is fine...please briefly explain...or just say I'm dumb...whatever.  This is not meant to start this conversation all over and open the argument up again.  But, if this idea sounds as good to others as it does to me, maybe this will help share the idea with others and if enough think it is a good idea, collectively everyone can think about it and help define and create a new simple solution to anime-like video categorization such as what I've proposed.

 

My ultimate goal with this is to be able to easily search a genre that contains all of what I like instead of having just Anime and then have to fish through Cartoon Categories to hunt for an anime-like movies/series/OVAs hidden in there.  It just doesn't seem feasible and I often miss very good shows because of this.  I hope a simple solution, such as this, may help to fix this...little issue possibly a non-issue for many, but considerable for some.

 

** Oh, as for my Avatar being Archer...even though it is an animation and may meet most of the criteria I described for "Animo", I would not consider it as part of this category.  It simply does not have the same feel at all.  The same goes for South Park. (both of which are pretty much the only non-anime animated series I watch). **

Edited by RegorTheGreat

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10 minutes ago, RegorTheGreat said:

Oh, a there are a few others I feel need this title (if they aren't considered anime, which I don't think they do...) including Godzilla Monster Planet [Trilogy], the Castlevania series (which I think is an excellent series...can't wait for the next season), and some others...

Godzilla is classified as an anime and is on MAL, etc.

Netflix classified/advertised Castlevania as an anime, but most people do not consider it anime and it wasn't accepted on any Anime database, except Anime-Planet which also accepted Avatar... so 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

I'm not fond of trying to come up with new names/classifications for animated series, especially since we're just a tiny drop in the bucket that is the internet and people wouldn't know wtf we're talking about if we started calling stuff random words we came up with for categorization.

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29 minutes ago, RegorTheGreat said:

My ultimate goal with this is to be able to easily search a genre that contains all of what I like instead of having just Anime and then have to fish through Cartoon Categories to hunt for an anime-like movies/series/OVAs hidden in there.  It just doesn't seem feasible and I often miss very good shows because of this.  I hope a simple solution, such as this, may help to fix this...little issue possibly a non-issue for many, but considerable for some.

So you want us to make and maintain a special category for animated shows based on whether you like them or not? Does not sound very useful for the community as a whole, considering that not everyone's opinion on those select shows will align with yours.

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I totally understand where your coming from. But from what you just said, there's clearly a need for terminology to help classify since this issue is starting to hit the top of the food chain...as I predicted it would, eventually...earlier in this thread.

 

I posted my idea laid out simply as an Idea and possibly a good starting point for simple awareness. I didn't mean it like I did in the original post asking for us to make changes.  It's more top seed the basic idea in the back of people's minds to consider what my idea is and remember it when these sorts of discussions come up in other places of the interwebs.  The exact term I used may not live in, but the premise of it should and can't help be a pivotal point in the fandom collectively coining a new team for this very reason so that it can become official at some point. 

 

19 minutes ago, Hark0n said:

So you want us to make and maintain a special category for animated shows based on whether you like them or not? Does not sound very useful for the community as a whole, considering that not everyone's opinion on those select shows will align with yours.

No, my idea is simply an example from my point of view used to explain how I would personally classify. The main point is that if everyone hypothetically uses a term such as what I came up with based on the idea and reasoning for needing it, and develops their own way they would classify "Amino", collectively combining this information would create a more universally agreed upon categorization without even realizing it.  When anime was new to us, we didn't have a term so just used anime.  Now, we just need to continue conversations all over the net with this simple little idea in the back of our minds when this issue comes up and terms will automatically be created, changed, and simply grow on its own into a new category that would be eventually too popular to not use and would be adopted by companies having trouble currently trying to categorize their video as anime.

 

The point is that I haven't seen or heard anyone ever say, Party A says it's anime...Party B says it's not...technically one is correct, but essentially the other is also correct...Hey, let's fix the terminology instead of arguing over an old outdated term that technically isn't accurate at all for use outside of Japan.  I only see this problem grown more and more until something like my idea finally happens.  It's inevitable.

 

Am I the only person that really sees this?

 

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I personally have never encountered the issue that you are trying to solve, so I don't see the usefulness in the solution. I am not strongly against doing it, as I rarely visit cartoon section anyways.

 

From your description it sounds  like what you what is a genre or a tag to be "upgraded" to a category and I don't see why it is necessary. Something being an anime is not defined by the content, but by origin so anything being "anime-like"/"animesque" is not only subjective but could be applied to both anime and western cartoons. I can only see more confusion due to some animation being listed under cartoons, some under animo and some listed under both.

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7 minutes ago, Hark0n said:

I personally have never encountered the issue that you are trying to solve, so I don't see the usefulness in the solution. I am not strongly against doing it, as I rarely visit cartoon section anyways.

 

From your description it sounds  like what you what is a genre or a tag to be "upgraded" to a category and I don't see why it is necessary. Something being an anime is not defined by the content, but by origin so anything being "anime-like"/"animesque" is not only subjective but could be applied to both anime and western cartoons. I can only see more confusion due to some animation being listed under cartoons, some under animo and some listed under both.

I appreciate and totally respect your response. This definitely isn't for everyone. Like I mentioned earlier, this may apply to just a select few at the moment. But, I predict this to gradually change and will grow to become a bigger concern that will affect more and more with time. 

 

Just remember, when the time comes where it affects you, please remember I predicted it long before anyone thought it was even an issue and even worked towards the basis for the solution.

 

But who knows, maybe it'll never happen or be resolved in another manner...who knows...

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I don't see how it'll ever become an issue within the foreseeable future...It's really only an issue that affects the few people that have an issue with labeling animation as cartoon. Like what is the actual issue with referring to something as cartoon besides the stigma that cartoons = for kids. Anime is technically a sub-genre of cartoons... All animation is technically a cartoon and vice versa.

 

The forum category "Cartoons & Animation" should be fine to place absolutely everything that doesn't fit the current definition of anime for the forseeable future and if a member is confused, they can ask a moderator/staff member where to place it based on the current definitions we adhere to.

 

It's not like another sub-genre board is going to somehow do anything more than confuse people about which place to post a show or to search for a show at this point, especially since any sub-category created just means any show placed within it could technically fall under more than one category based on various viewpoints. Like if an "Animo" board, as per your suggestion, was added... people would then need to decide if an "animo" should be posted there or within the original Cartoon board that it would also technically fit under.

 

IMO, The Cartoons & Animation board hasn't grown to a size that really needs separation in order to maintain or locate things. How does being 3DCG somehow make an anime not an anime or a cartoon not a cartoon? These days all anime and cartoons have CG in some shape or fashion regardless if they're 2D or 3D. Separating them out between hand-drawn and CG... just means separating classics from modern shows. If it's anything created in the last 15 years, it's pretty much guaranteed to have CG elements.

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7 minutes ago, Koby said:

IMO, The Cartoons & Animation board hasn't grown to a size that really needs separation in order to maintain or locate things. 

on top of this, there's a very clear distinction between releases in the Anime boards vs releases in the Cartoons board, both in what people post and what people are generally looking for.

 

In Cartoons & Animation, the important things are the resolution, source media, and encoder, generally in that order.

In the Anime boards, the priorities are the subtitle source (fansub/retail/etc), the encoder, and the source media, again in that general order. 

 

This is pretty consistent, and shows a clear delineation of what each board gets used for. There's the rare exception, but even with foreign dubs of Cartoons, they simply don't have the extensive fansubbing work you see for Anime. The distro boards separate just as cleanly based on that alone.

 

our current rules on where stuff goes are very easy to follow anyway. If it's on AniDB or MAL, it goes in Anime. otherwise it doesn't. nice and simple.

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On 8/17/2018 at 6:07 PM, Catar said:

In Cartoons & Animation, the important things are the resolution, source media, and encoder, generally in that order.

In the Anime boards, the priorities are the subtitle source (fansub/retail/etc), the encoder, and the source media, again in that general order. 

 

This is pretty consistent, and shows a clear delineation of what each board gets used for. There's the rare exception, but even with foreign dubs of Cartoons, they simply don't have the extensive fansubbing work you see for Anime. The distro boards separate just as cleanly based on that alone. 

You know, I never really took this into consideration.  Good point!

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