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Topless Women in Public Not Breaking the Law, Says NYPD

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Ladies of New York, you are free to walk bare-breasted through the city! New York City's 34,000 police officers have been instructed that, should they encounter a woman in public who is shirtless but obeying the law, they should not arrest her. This is a good step towards gender parity in public spaces.


 


This decision means that breast exposure is not considered public lewdness, indecent exposure, or disorderly conduct. It also notes that, should a crowd form around a topless woman, the officer should instruct the crowd to disperse and then respond appropriately if it does not. Relative coverage is no longer a factor.


 


This policy shift comes after several years of litigation and protest. In the 1992 case People v. Ramona Santorelli and Mary Lou Schloss, the New York Court of Appeals ruled in favor of two women who were arrested with five others for exposing their breasts in a Rochester park, holding the law void as discriminatory.  The ruling was put to the test in 2005, when Jill Coccaro bared her breasts on Delancey Street in New York, citing the 1992 decision, and was detained for twelve hours. She subsequently successfully sued the city for $29,000.


 


In 2007, Go Topless, a national organization supporting gender equality in shirtlessness laws, established Go Topless Day. Dozens of women protest – often topless – in thirty cities around the United States, promoting equal rights to be shirtless. Protests usually include chants of “Free your breasts.  Free your minds” and a song “Let ‘em Breathe” to the tune of the Beatles’ “Let it Be.”


 


While some who have witnessed these events have suggested that "[t]his is extreme liberalism and why America’s in decline” or “t’s degrading to women,” others have been supportive. One man even said he would encourage his wife to join them.


 


Though bare-breasted women might shock the sensibilities of some in the public, it is encouraging to see the police responding positively to gender bias, even on such a seemingly small scale. After all, no one thinks twice about a man shirtless on a summer day. However, the female nipple or chest is still considered “lewd.” By reminding its officers of this, the NYPD is publicly declaring that it will no longer perpetuate unconstitutional gender discrimination, a standard to which all law enforcement should be held and a decision for which it should be applauded.


 


 


http://www.policymic.com/articles/42359/topless-women-in-public-not-breaking-the-law-says-nypd

Edited by cloud1414
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Yes, having a body is so degrading. How dare women with breasts exist!! And live their own lives!!


 


People lose their mind if an errant bra strap is seen, god forbid any of us acknowledge that breasts!! Exist!! For reasons!! That don't!! Revolve!! Around men!!


 


It's only "degrading" because people are terrible. Bodies aren't inherently titillating or sexual.


 


It's the fact that bodies--especially the female body--are used for advertisements. Cars, burgers, web space, even cleaning products are all advertised with faceless bodies. It's like people don't know how to sell something without appealing to boners.


 


It's the fact that female bodies are fetishised and treated like a commodity that it's "degrading" at all. I don't think I need to go into any details about that on an anime forum--we've all seen some pretty messed up things.


 


So let them be bare-chested! Reclaim your bodies!


 


Mod Note: Any comments, lewd or otherwise, about not wanting to see "ugly fat women" or how you're glad you can have "free real life porn", will be grounds for temporary suspension. You have been warned. Don't be terrible.


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Thing is is that the breast is not a sexuall organ all it is is just fat on the body. I never understood why people make a big deal about it. Just like mothers cant breastfeed their children in public because people think its so wrong. Well fuck them, im glad women are finally getting a break and I hope this goes on throughout the nation. Equallity for all.


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"ugly fat women" more like please, let me punch you in the face and give you some real ugly n_n

I honestly believe that women should be able to feel comfortable in their own skin, even I personally have issues with the subject. Now, I wouldn't exactly go barechested out in public as it is, but if someone feels like this is what they need to do, I don't think that they should be stopped. It seems like women's chests=nothing but sexual is just hard-wired into the minds of society and humanity as a whole, but I'm sure that over time it'll be more neutral. I mean, butts are seuxal /and/ funtional! And they're shown on TV without getting an extreme rating. Why can't the female chest be the same way?

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I think this is great, I remember reading aaagges back about a group of women who did this stuff protesting but it never really seemed to get anywhere, I'm glad after all their hard work it's finally paying off for them, I just hope that none of this leads to like sexual assault and shit like that because there are a lot of sick people out there and let's face it, if you're a sicko and you see a women topless you're gonna go for it. They did all this hard work just to then be violeted by sick fucks... That's my only issue with this, so I guess it's more I'm just worried about what might happen, especially since police officers cant be around 24/7 and in a place like new york there is a lot of crime and sick people.


 


I think I repeated myself some there but I got my point across too I think.


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Glad that this is finally getting across. I have always held that it is really stupid since public indecency is typically about deliberately being provocative, and just walking around without a shirt does not fall in this category. Hopefully this spreads around to the rest of America and potentially beyond, although I doubt that this will be instated in most Muslim countries. Huzzah!


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I just hope that none of this leads to like sexual assault and shit like that because there are a lot of sick people out there and let's face it, if you're a sicko and you see a women topless you're gonna go for it.

 

I can't see how this won't be the outcome to women walking around topless. 

 

While I'm all for equality, I can't say that I agree with this rule, at least not in the way it seems to be now. It just doesn't seem fair to anyone else around when people are going topless in crowded environments like long lines or a subway. That goes for men to though, I don't think anyone should have to be subjected to being in close proximity to a sweating shirtless person.

 

I do, however, think either sex should have the right to go topless at a beach or a pool. I think there should be specific places where people should be aloud to go topless, and everywhere else they should be required to wear clothing. I always appreciate the places that have a no shirt, no shoes, no service rule. I guess I'm just too old fashion, because I think people who insist on displaying themselves like that without any consideration to other people around them are just rude.

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As far as sexual assault goes, we need to move away from the victim-blaming, "there are ways to prevent sexual assault" line of thinking. If women in sweatpants and jackets get assaulted, if women in burqas get assaulted, the issue isn't clothing--or the lack thereof. Allowing women the same privilege of going about topless as men do is a good enough opportunity for education and to call people out on their bullshit.


 


Anyone who sees a nude, or partially nude, person as someone who wants sex needs to reevaluate their thought processes. Besides, virtually no one looks at a topless ("shirtless") dude and thinks, "Aw yeah, he wants the D". Why should it be different for a woman?


 


It's that kind of process that leads schools to come up with rules like banning girls from wearing tight pants, strapless dresses at formal dances, and leggings because "it's distracting the boys". It's why men are allowed to fire secretaries for being "too attractive". It's why assault cases are thrown out, because a woman was wearing jeans and there's no way an assailant could have removed them without her help.


 


There is definitely something to be said about dressing appropriately for certain situations (work, food service, gardening), but I don't see why it's inconsiderate for a person to dress they want on the street. They have nothing to do with me and I have nothing to do with them. If a guy wants to sag his pants to his knees and hobble around, he ain't hurting my feelings. If a woman wants to wear leggings as pants and a shirt that's just barely long enough to cover her bum, that's her business and not mine.


 


How a person dresses--or doesn't dress--isn't really about other people. That kind of body policing doesn't sit well with me--"how could she wear such a short skirt" and "that doesn't even fit her" and "doesn't she respect herself". A lot of people cover up body policing by saying they're just worried about decency, that we should "think about the children", that we shouldn't be exposed to "offensive" things such as, gasp, a fat person's body.


 


I'm far from a native New Yorker (I consider myself more a Californian, at least in spirit), but I've been there enough times that, really, for NYC, a topless woman would be the least shocking thing one would see all day--maybe even all week. If it results in an increase of sexual assault, then that's pretty telling about our society and will hopefully be enough for others to realise just how deeply ingrained rape culture actually is.


 


Or it could just lead to more people claiming that boobs are evil. Either way. I'd rather not be a pessimist. It's just not a productive mindset. One has to be at least a little optimistic if one wants to effect change in the world--otherwise there's no real reason to do so.


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Or it could just lead to more people claiming that boobs are evil. Either way. I'd rather not be a pessimist. It's just not a productive mindset. One has to be at least a little optimistic if one wants to effect change in the world--otherwise there's no real reason to do so.

 

Boobs are evil! The most evil thing in the world, so distracting lol. Okay off of that I agree with what you're saying clearly and yeah I'm a bit of a pessimist so I saw the bad side in this first, I'll admit that but I'm still glad women are getting the opportunity to express themselves how they want to, it's good.

 

Also as for this "Anyone who sees a nude, or partially nude, person as someone who wants sex needs to reevaluate their thought processes." line right here. Some people are just screwed in the head and do stupid shit without caring but yes they should reevaluate their though process.

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It's only "degrading" because people are terrible. Bodies aren't inherently titillating or sexual.

 

 

I agree. But the fact that most other men don't, bothers me.

I'm sure that there won't be an overnight transition to everyone-goes-topless, but lets assume there is.

Consider girls with "less than perfect" ones by TV standards (not talking about the Spartacus series. They've got a pretty balanced portfolio). Won't they feel inadequite when they see the "perfect" ones and then commit suicide? I've heard stories of this happening already, so if this transition goes through Im afraid the suicide rates will go up.

(note: I'm not saying they should commit suicide. I think it's silly and they shouldn't be so influenced by others' opinions)

You might argue that the majority of girls/women have "problems" or "defects" and that it should boost girls' self esteems to see other women the same or "worse" than them, but as time goes on, more and more women will feel ashamed when comparing themselves to others and cover themselves up till only the "good" ones remain.

 

That's just my assumption, or rather, question. Not a statement.

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yes, now that women can go around topless all us men are going to really respect what they-NOT!!! 


 


helping my mum look for a new partner has really diminished my opinion of the male species in general:D 


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Drumroll, stop. I've already removed one of your posts. Your comments are not conducive to this discussion. Any further disrespectful comments from you will result in suspension.


 


Anyway, as far as the whole "seeing other women's boobs is despairing" thing.


 


I went to basic training. I've seen a lot of naked women. They didn't make me feel bad about my body, because no one's body was perfect. Also I had other things to worry about, like making it through basic training alive and mostly sane.


 


I use Tumblr. I see a lot of naked women, drawn and photographed, on my dash. They don't make me feel bad about my body, because none of those bodies are perfect either.


 


If I saw topless women these days, I would still not care because I have other things to worry about--again, they have nothing to do with me and I have nothing to do with them unless they are visibly distressed.


 


If anything, people are more likely to see that everyone else also has different breasts. Some have one breast larger than the other, some have stretch marks, some have sagging breasts. They would immediately see a variety and imperfection that magazines and television don't offer. They would see reality for what it actually is--weird and kind of lumpy.


 


For anyone who is curious, let me get you started on a journey wherein you learn what real breasts look like. Here's one gallery.


 


People are already awful and make fun of each other, but how much of that can we attribute to personal insecurities bestowed upon us by rape culture? Look at Drumroll's sarcastic comment, I'm sure you've seen plenty like it before already.


 


"yes, now that women can go around topless all us men are going to really respect what they-NOT!!! "


 


Joke's on us, because rape culture already doesn't respect women.


 


One of the most common ways to band together is through a shared enemy. If we're taught "ugliness" is the enemy (and we are), then it's pretty easy to band together against "ugly" people. Maybe if we all saw that, hey, all our boobs are different, maybe we would be less inclined to think they are "ugly".


 


Pornography and magazines affect our view of women's bodies more than some would like to admit. A former coworker was looking at artistic nudes one day and there was a woman lying on her back.


 


For anyone playing at home, when a woman lies on her back, usually her breasts flatten out a bit and separate. If they don't move (and most all breasts WILL, even if they are very small--you'd have to be perfectly flat to have no movement), then chances are they are implants.


 


So anyway, she was scrolling by these pictures and paused at the one of the woman on her back. Another person who was with her immediately exclaimed, "WHAT'S WRONG WITH HER TITS?"


 


She then had to explain how gravity works to him.


 


So if there's any cause for despair, it's the fact that magazines and pornography are allowed to peddle artificiality as reality, that they can shove air brushed and edited photos of women and act like that's real and achievable.


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I'm sure that there won't be an overnight transition to everyone-goes-topless, but lets assume there is.

Consider girls with "less than perfect" ones by TV standards (not talking about the Spartacus series. They've got a pretty balanced portfolio). Won't they feel inadequite when they see the "perfect" ones and then commit suicide? I've heard stories of this happening already, so if this transition goes through Im afraid the suicide rates will go up.

(note: I'm not saying they should commit suicide. I think it's silly and they shouldn't be so influenced by others' opinions)

You might argue that the majority of girls/women have "problems" or "defects" and that it should boost girls' self esteems to see other women the same or "worse" than them, but as time goes on, more and more women will feel ashamed when comparing themselves to others and cover themselves up till only the "good" ones remain.

 

That's just my assumption, or rather, question. Not a statement.

If you're assuming that other girls will judge themselves that harshly based on the chests of others, who most likely would have their own insecurities about their own bodies, you're definitely wrong. I don't know if you're thinking that as a man or if your opinion really is ignorant, but I've seen many different types of breasts and none of them have made me feel bad about my own chest.

Even speaking as someone who's attracted to the female form, I don't find the action of women going topless sexual at all, and not just because I'm female.

If someone commits suicide over something as petty as someone else's breasts being "" better"" then theirs, there were other, much deeper issues at hand.

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If someone commits suicide over something as petty as someone else's breasts being "" better"" then theirs, there were other, much deeper issues at hand.

 

This, basically.

 

The comparisons are already happening. Other people don't need to be naked in order for comparisons to be drawn. "She's skinnier than me." "Her skin is nicer." "Her elbows aren't ashy." "She has amazing hair." "Her toenails are in great condition." "Her voice is much more pleasant than mine." "I wish I were as patient as her."

 

Being able to see breasts is just a drop in the bucket of things to compare yourself to.

 

If the argument is ubiquity, that doesn't hold water either, because these false images of "ideal women" are everywhere. Look at some people's signatures and avatars here. If you watch movies, look at the types of women they cast. If you watch TV, look at the way women are portrayed in commercials. If you read books, look at how women are portrayed on the covers--if they're there at all. If you're on the Internet, look at the different advertisements, at the way people try to bring you to their sites. Look at how women are portrayed in video games, even board games--again, if they're there at all.

 

We're already assailed with images of "ideal women" all the time. The only way to get away from it is to become a hermit.

 

Seeing real women being topless and going about their would just mean we actually get real points of reference, that we would be able to see that we're not as weird as we think we are, and maybe actually get people to stop thinking of breasts--and women's bodies as a whole--as a sexual object.

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I have to say that.. Despite having a pretty positive body image, I don't care how legal it is, I'm not going around topless in public.


 


In my own home on the other hand? That's another story entirely, and irrelevant to the discussion.


 


Summer time especially I will always choose to cover up outside... Sunburned titties does not sound like good times!


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Haha, well, I'm sure there are people who would like to be able to go around shirtless, inasmuch as they'd like to be able to wear skirts or shorts without reprisal. I can see that this decision is important to a lot of people, and can easily serve as an educational point--nudity isn't inherently sexual.


 


As a side note, I live on the wild side and never use sunscreen, but I imagine most people are more responsible than me and would take precautions to care for their skin. If nothing else, it's not like the cosmetic companies would shy away from cashing in on it--"special sunscreen for your girls!"


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Unless it's SPF 9001, I'll stick to covering up.


 


I burn really easy in spite of always using sunscreen and everything else that should be done to avoid burning. So I tend to not swim outside as much... Unless we're camping by the lake, because apparently, the lake is better for not burning than the public swimming pool.


 


 


On an on topic note though.. I don't mind if others go topless. As long as they understand that, if they're hanging out there, they will probably be stared at. Probably by everyone. At least with a shirt on, it's only the guys that will stare! (most of the time)


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I think you may have gotten the wrong end of the stick, EO


 


You are clearly a passionate feminist and I respect that. However, the point of my post is that the thought processes of men are too simple when it comes to things such as breasts. 


 


Somehow, you managed to relate my comment to rape culture which is way out of line, especially for a co-admin...you may have your opinions but if you blunder along making comments like that then this site is not going to go anywhere good.


 


My post basically states that by women having their breasts out (and I don't care what shape they are, big, small, sagging, banana shaped etc) it will do nothing to avert 'rape culture' but merely incite those who would consider such things. Men are simply too simple a species to take into consideration equal rights if breasts were jiggling about everywhere. Perhaps a few might have the fortitude to look a female in the face but it-ah, whatever. I shouldn't have to even analyse my post when its meaning was so obvious to those with the slightest capacity for lateral thought.


 


However, if you do simply want to hate on me then I could bust out some Ali-G quotes and goose step around a little:D


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Even outside of this thread's context, even outside the context of an issue I care about, a post like this:


 


yes, now that women can go around topless all us men are going to really respect what they-NOT!!! 

 


helping my mum look for a new partner has really diminished my opinion of the male species in general:D



 


Does not contribute to a debate. At all.


 


My integrity as a co-admin is irrelevant to this discussion. The fact that you tried to cut me down by calling my ability to function as co-admin into question, instead of just saying you disagree that such a ruling would be useful, is problematic. The fact you think that I, acting alone, am capable of bringing this forum to its knees is problematic.


 


It's important to identify even the smallest things as contributing factors to rape culture. We can't make changes unless we face those things directly and see them for what they really are.


 


You may think I'm blundering, and I make no secret that I'm stupid, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong that your comment was disrespectful and a result of rape culture.


 


Let's look at it again:


 


yes, now that women can go around topless all us men are going to really respect what they-NOT!!!

 


Why is a woman being topless a reason not to respect her? Why is a woman choosing not to cover up herself a reason not to respect her?


 


Why frame your idea--which appears to be "I don't think this is a good idea"--with sarcasm?


 


Here are some educational links on rape culture.


 


Making this ruling about men is pretty telling. Because men "can't control themselves" (another symptom of rape culture), women have to cover up. Because it's not a magic cure-all for rape culture, women should cover up.


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The choice to cover up, or not to cover up, should have nothing to do with you respecting them or not. Or with other men respecting them or not.


 


Here's the thing though. If you don't cover up at all, you shouldn't be surprised when people look. It's no different than people wearing mini-skirts and tight pants and then getting offended because people are checking out their ass. (Key word, people. Women do it too.)


 


Good looking guys who go around shirtless get checked out too. By both men and women. The difference is, that if someone decided to drag that good looking man into a dark alley and have their way with him, the blame would never fall on him, because society doesn't place the same burden on men as it does on women when it comes to sex of any kind.


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