We're all in a leaking ship, and it's about time we fixed it.

[lemmingllama]

 

Just curious, are there rules on posting to old topics here? I've come across a few topics I wanted to post to but they were three to four months old so I left them. I know some forums they have rules not to post on old topics and I didn't see anything about it in the rules (unless I missed it).

 

I will say I don't think any of you are doing anything wrong or doing anything that makes people leave. This topic alone really showed me how different the community is here compared to other forums I've been on. Everyone here really seems to care about the success and popularity of the forums whereas on other forum sites they just die away unfortunately. Honestly, it's because of some of the members in this topic, like you, that I came back. Unfortunately I wasn't around long enough to really get to know anyone, but it was just nice to finally have other people to talk about anime and Sims with that didn't find it silly.

 

For your first question, you can post in any topic assuming that it is a valid post and is related to the topic at hand. Basically as long as it isn't an "I agree" or something short and meaningless, feel free to post.

 

And even if you don't currently know anyone on the forums, just post around and I'm sure that you will befriend some people. Activity begets activity, so if you have something to say then I'm certain that someone will comment on your posts or discuss. Enjoy!

[† Mute point]

Posting in old threads is perfectly acceptable as long as you are adding something to the discussion.

 

So you know... More than just

 

"Bump"

 

or

 

"I agree."

[† Emotional Outlet]

It's definitely in the rules, haha. It needs to be updated though; I'll do that this weekend some time.

 

"• Necro-posting (reviving old threads) is allowed, as long as there is something relevant or constructive to add to the thread."

 

And I say "plaster", but in my head I was imagining posting more reminders in the statuses. Having a subforum for the newsletter would make things easier though, and might spur a bit more activity for article submissions, since a lot of it is done off-site and is kind of inconvenient at times.

 

I do think there's some stuff we can do to make things a bit more streamlined and user friendly, like condensing subforum descriptions and hiding the Farplane in addition to making better use of the announcement header (I don't think anyone can edit that box except Koby, haha).

 

I know there's some support as far the Farplane goes, but I don't know how people feel about the length of the subforum descriptions.

[SerafinaStar]

It's definitely in the rules, haha. It needs to be updated though; I'll do that this weekend some time.

 

"• Necro-posting (reviving old threads) is allowed, as long as there is something relevant or constructive to add to the thread."

 

Wow, well don't I feel like a dork now. Completely missed that necro-posting line in the rules. Darn it. Have no idea how I missed that when I read them. My eyes must be playing tricks on me again.

 

I think a subforum would work for the newsletter. I imagine that might be easier to read past issues and keep everything together. I mean you don't have to search too much in the forum it's in now but it would be kind of nice to just click on the Kametsu Informer subforum to find all the issues. Honestly I find the site very user friendly. I think the descriptions are fine length wise. I just glance over them whenever I want to know what a subforum is all about. 

[† Emotional Outlet]

No worries, it's a little buried in there, haha.

 

I like the idea of having a shorter index so I don't have to scroll as much (and I'm used to fora where subforum descriptions are either nonexistent or very short), but that's definitely just my personal preference. ouo We don't have a huge problem with people posting stuff in the wrong place (far as I know anyway)--at most we'll get people asking for recs outside of the recs & reviews subforum.

[† L4ugh]

Since an earlier post seems to be confusing some people, I will attempt to define some of my vocabulary. 

 

As defined by L4ugh

 

Leecher – A sad self-absorbed person who thinks the internet exist solely to provide them with free zero effort anime. These are the people who join an anime forum only to rapidly spam their way to the required post count, for access to downloads, and then never post again.  They are also the ones that will, upon learning there is a post limit, head to the assistance board and rant on about how stupid the post limit is. Upon finishing their rant they will proceed to brag about how they will just spam their way to said post count. They exist solely to download anime and offer nothing to the community they are suppose to be a member of.

 

Ani-tard – The bastard love child of a leecher and a troll, a person so incredibly self-absorbed that they could never be happy with just leeching alone. These are the people who demand that certain anime be made available to them for download, even if said anime hasn’t been released yet. They will also beg staff members of a forum, either in public or via pm, to be made a fellow staff member so they can promptly abuse their new found powers. These people will do anything to appease staff members in hopes of being given a staff position, including: insulting unpopular members, dog piling on top of other members, or engaging in excessive butt-snorkeling. They exist solely to irritate and annoy the community as much as humanly possible.

 

Concerning the problems that has/do make this place uninviting

 

Insulting – attacking a person solely because they have a different opinion than yours by calling them stupid, ignorant, retarded, etc…

 

Snarking – The act of making a snarky remark to someone who is only trying to help or express an opinion, with the intended purpose of making them look as stupid as possible.

 

Dog Piling – Two or more people railing against someone for being unpopular, making a mistake, or simply having an unpopular opinion.

 

Only one of the above is actually against forum rules as they seem to be written now, but all of them make this place uninviting.

 

 

[† Emotional Outlet]

I would make butt snorkeling against the rules just so I can say butt snorkeling in an official thread.

 

I've only stepped in on one dog pile, and that one was particularly egregious since the stuff they were attacking was quite a bit old.

 

Since my threshold for that kind of stuff (abusive snark, piling up on people) seem different from a lot of people's, I tend to let it go. I'm  less tolerant in spite of (or maybe because of) regularly visiting two fora where people are encouraged to be as abusive as possible towards unwanted users.

 

That said, any reports made are discussed by the staff if they aren't immediately actioned, so if anyone sees any behaviour of that sort, just let us know with a report. It makes it easier to stamp these things out if we hear from our members that something is problematic.

 

Additionally--if you guys come to me in private about taking punitive action against a member, that puts a lot of pressure on me and makes me hesitant to do anything about it because I don't want to look like a mod you can get in cozy with. (I know this isn't most people's intentions.) Unless it's something you honestly don't want other people to know about or you believe this is definitely something only I can handle, please use the report system.

 

It also ensures a timely response, because sometimes I overlook PMs and it's really embarrassing to notice an old unread PM in my inbox despite the fact I answered other ones since then. The notification goes away if you look at your inbox at all, regardless of whether you've read the message or not. Report notifications remain until they're actually marked complete, and all of the staff sees it.

[lemmingllama]

Concerning the problems that has/do make this place uninviting

 

Insulting – attacking a person solely because they have a different opinion than yours by calling them stupid, ignorant, retarded, etc…

 

Snarking – The act of making a snarky remark to someone who is only trying to help or express an opinion, with the intended purpose of making them look as stupid as possible.

 

Dog Piling – Two or more people railing against someone for being unpopular, making a mistake, or simply having an unpopular opinion.

 

Only one of the above is actually against forum rules as they seem to be written now, but all of them make this place uninviting.

 

I do have to say that these problems have cooled off a bit since I first joined up. In the months after I first joined, I remember being the target of all of these on multiple occasions. Other than some lingering tensions and abandonment of the threads/CB, not much was really done since they were valid opinions written in an offensive manner. I can say that I haven't any of these in great amounts in 2013 so far, except for situations where the mods have stepped in.

 

Personally what I would say makes this place uninviting is that most people come and spam the specific anime/game boards (Naruto/Final Fantasy) where none of the regular members go since all the threads are of the "I agree" category. They never meet people who actually chat or are interesting, and tend to only stick around for downloads. Whereas the members that post in places like Balamb or Mako will get a lot more responses and have a lot higher chance of sticking around. Personally I have hated a lot of the threads in Naruto/Bleach subfora and would move them to "My Two Cents" then just merge the decent threads back into the Anime. Oh well...

[Dark_Angel13]

 

Personally what I would say makes this place uninviting is that most people come and spam the specific anime/game boards (Naruto/Final Fantasy) where none of the regular members go since all the threads are of the "I agree" category. They never meet people who actually chat or are interesting, and tend to only stick around for downloads. Whereas the members that post in places like Balamb or Mako will get a lot more responses and have a lot higher chance of sticking around. Personally I have hated a lot of the threads in Naruto/Bleach subfora and would move them to "My Two Cents" then just merge the decent threads back into the Anime. Oh well...

 

 

I'm a regular member and I go pretty much everywhere except the anime part because my knowledge on anime is a little limited since I havent seen 100 anime+ like most ppl who post there. I'll agree with you that some of the threads in those areas are quite easily spammed with random i agree posts and whatnot but some regular members do haunt them too. Finding a conversation on here nowadays is quite difficult too as most people post in a thread and then never return to it even if you quote them to try and get something started. Perhaps we're all too mean to new members and dont realise it or they really just only are here for downloads which is a distinct possibility.

 

 

Concerning the problems that has/do make this place uninviting

 

Insulting – attacking a person solely because they have a different opinion than yours by calling them stupid, ignorant, retarded, etc…

 

Snarking – The act of making a snarky remark to someone who is only trying to help or express an opinion, with the intended purpose of making them look as stupid as possible.

 

Dog Piling – Two or more people railing against someone for being unpopular, making a mistake, or simply having an unpopular opinion.

 

Only one of the above is actually against forum rules as they seem to be written now, but all of them make this place uninviting.

 

 

 

Now onto this Laugh. I've seen some attacking before and yes it doesnt look good to new members or to regulars either, for most of us this is like a second home so seeing it like that isnt enjoyable for anyone but most of us try to help resolve it and I cant remember the last personal attack on here. Snarking happens verrry often on here to both new members and regulars, I'll admit that I do this sometimes to members but sometimes people's stupidity annoys me or if they purposely come into a thread to post something that makes no sense they're practically begging to be jumped on, especially if they keep doing it.

 

Dog piling... hmm, pretty sure I've done this and it does happen when one person's views are different but to be fair usually the shared view is the right one and the person getting dog piled may deserve it to realise they're view is VERY wrong, otherwise it's not right. So I guess what I'm saying is sometimes these things happen, usually on purpose or sometimes things just fester out of control but as long as we don't hold grudges I'm sure we'll all be fine with that and hopefully newbies won't see it when and if it does happen again.

[Breathless]

Okay. So. I accidentally deleted my message so this is going to be a more brief version of it.

Speaking about the subfora issue. I actually had this issue a while back on a forum I used to visit. I was a regular in the thread 'Ichigo 100%' - (great manga, terrible anime), - and this thread was quite popular. In fact, it was popular enough to have it's own subforum. But what ended up happening was that as the points of conversation got split up into threads, it ended up only have like one or two people in each thread, then with the random visitor who will post once and never come back. It didn't offer much. Compared to only having one thread, where there are many points of conversations in it. Though, not all at once, it sort of cycled through them as they got brought up. (A bit like the Random Talk thread. A lot of conversations take place in one thread.)

Now to apply this to Kametsu. Possible the same issue in our anime forum? There are so much threads, about so many different things, it's more like dotpoints and less of a conversational thread. (is that a word?)

To make it more simple. Pros vs Cons.
Pros/Cons of having fewer mini-threads, and more collaborative threads.
 + More group conversations.
 - Possibly harder for new people to enter
 + More intimate (People actually reply to your thoughts)
 - Probably only one or two points can be talked about at a time.
 + Each point is more thoroughly discussed

This is a rough chart.

And I know this is pretty much a reiteration of what many of you have said. Just posted my thoughts rather than silently agreeing, because that helps no one!

---

About the Dog Piling / Snarking / Insulting / Leecher / Ani Tard discussion.

I feel like I've seen a fair share of this. Well. I'm not as active as I used to be, but I felt like when I was active I'd see it quite frequently. I find some people are just bad at expressing themselves so it comes out like a blunt 'lol, no. You're wrong. I don't need to explain myself if you're wrong.' Maybe that's just me? I personally don't have a problem with it, but I'm kind of thick skinned. If someone doesn't agree with me, and if they're unwilling or unable to explain, then #yolo. I care what I think about more. And I understand not everyone is like this. geh. I don't even know what I'm trying to say in this section of my post. I'll have a coffee and think about it more.

[† Emotional Outlet]

The interesting thing about the Random Talk thread to me is that it can definitely be split up into different threads, especially since there are times when a specific conversation is so overwhelming that it effectively locks the thread into that topic (like it did recently with the HDD discussion) until someone manages to derail it or it naturally dies and someone is willing to revive it with another conversation topic. But I feel like when attempts are made to split up the thread when a long-running discussion is being held, people don't like it.

 

And then we appear to have the opposite in the Anime and Gaming subfora, where extremely limited points are discussed in each thread and threads are regularly spammed.

 

I do see a bit of dismissive "I disagree with you, but I won't deign to explain why I disagree" attitude thrown around the forum, and again, that's something that does bother me, but I don't know how others feel, especially when I'm not the target of that kind of treatment.

 

There are certainly unpopular opinions out there. I make no secret of my bleeding heart liberal ways, but I don't want people to believe there are any forum-sanctioned official opinions. So even if a person holds an unpopular opinion, it shouldn't be okay to dog pile. This isn't a place where conversions are held.

 

Anyway, I feel like there might be some disconnect on what is meant by dog pile? Because I think L4ugh is referring specifically to events where people just show up to kick dirt at people and prolong a bad situation without actually contributing anything of value to a conversation, whereas Dark is talking about events where the majority of participants in a debate happen to agree on something that a handful of others don't. That's an unfortunate situation to be in since you can easily feel targeted, but it's not automatically a dog pile.

 

Somewhat tangentially--how do you guys feel about very long threads? Like threads over a hundred pages long, like the Random Talk thread and the "what are you playing/watching/listening to" threads?

 

I personally am not a big fan of supersized threads, because from a newbie standpoint, it feels like you're being locked out of a conversation ("we already discussed that, read the thread") and it's like... no one actually wants to read hundred page threads, do they? Unless there's something real interesting going on, like an LP or something, those large threads seem to become dumping grounds, especially low content threads like "What are you watching right now".

 

I've heard on other fora that what they do for a random talk type of thread is just have a daily chatter thread that is removed and reposted every day. So at the start of each day, there's a new thread and the old one is shoved in an archive somewhere. Like we could split the Farplane into actual trash threads and retired threads, so that way old closed threads that aren't stupid spam can be looked at and we can still hide the stupid spammy posts/threads.

[Breathless]

I do see a bit of dismissive "I disagree with you, but I won't deign to explain why I disagree" attitude thrown around the forum, and again, that's something that does bother me, but I don't know how others feel, especially when I'm not the target of that kind of treatment.

Haha, ya. Maybe I worded that wrongly. To say "I don't have a problem with it" wasn't exactly true. It's more like. "If you're not going to express your point I'm going to skim over your post", which is a terrible thing. Every post deserves to be read, but when it's so blunt, and leaves no openings for discussion, ugh. It's just like. "Okay then. That discussion was fun while it lasted."

 

Somewhat tangentially--how do you guys feel about very long threads? Like threads over a hundred pages long, like the Random Talk thread and the "what are you playing/watching/listening to" threads?

As for this. I find that I'll read the initial few pages. (I'll read upto like, 10-15 pages if it's interesting but I'll never read all 100. That's just impossible.) And then I'll read the last few pages, leaving out a big bulk of content in between.

Again, bringing up an old system I used on another forum, purely as a random suggestion. There was a page limit on threads. So it would be like. "Hellsing I" and once that reached it's 20th page (200 posts I think?), that thread got moved to the archive and "Hellsing II" was started. (The last 5-10 posts of the previous thread was quoted into the next thread) I didn't mind that system. Then again. I don't mind 100pages in a thread, and what have you.

But if it's a 5 word reply thread "What's your top 5 anime", I don't really see the need to cut that up into multiple threads. Each post is pretty much a duplicate of the last, so that can go on for 1000s of pages.

I'm quite impartial. Whether it's a long thread, long posts, or short ones, I'll give it a shot. And if I find it interesting, banzai.

This thread is a good example. Each post is quite lengthy, but I gobble through this thread like it's breakfast because it interests me. (omnomnom)

[Snowburden]

I'll read more of these posts in a bit, but I would like to say something (for all I know it's already been said).

 

Not sure if we can for whatever reason, but I think this forum needs some advertising or something. I really like this forum, and I'm starting to be an uploader of that sort. It just pains me when I post things on this forum, and it takes hours or even days until someone finally posts. I like the myanimelist's forum, but a SHIT ton of those people are complete dicks... you can just see from looking at posts. This community (at least so far from what I've seen) is kind and awesome, I don't see much flaming and trolling all that much (some here and there, but nothing compared to other forums). Is there anything we as a community can do to advertise or get more members, and hopefully people that wants an Anime forum and actually sticks around after the 15 posts. Not sure if their are rules of some sort of advertisement for the forums or something, so if there is, please post or something.

 

What kind of advertisement or whatever? Well just links and such from signatures that would link to the forum or something from other forums. And other things... of that sort. OR, you could post the Kametsu forum on Facebook pages, or if you're an admin of a Facebook page, post the forum. I'm sure just doing that and having several thousand members in your Facebook page, you would get a couple of members here and there.

 

This is a great forum, and I enjoy talking about Anime and such, but since the community is REAL small it just makes you want to stop or go elsewhere you know? There has to be something we can do?

Edited June 22, 2013 by Snowburden

[† L4ugh]

Snarking happens verrry often on here to both new members and regulars, I'll admit that I do this sometimes to members but sometimes people's stupidity annoys me or if they purposely come into a thread to post something that makes no sense they're practically begging to be jumped on, especially if they keep doing it.

 

I would recommend rethinking this strategy, it's probably the single biggest reason why I'm one of the least popular members on this forum. I imagine it has a lot to do with why Rune was banned as well. What seems stupid to you may not be stupid to someone else, and everyone is aloud to have an opinion. Attacking people because they annoy you isn't a good excuse. Use the report button if you think they're just trolling for an argument. Taking it upon yourself to shut them up could be considered a form of mini-modding.

 

I understand what you mean by being annoyed, because I also feel this a lot when I see the pointless spam brought on by my previously described leechers and ani-tards. We all care about this place and want it to succeed. Seeing people openly disrespect the community in such a way can be very offensive. What was at the heart of my first post was that this isn't are job. That's why Koby has a staff, it's their job, so leave it to them. Report it when it bothers you, and take it up with them personally if you don't think they're taking your concerns seriously enough.

 

 

but to be fair usually the shared view is the right one and the person getting dog piled may deserve it to realise they're view is VERY wrong,

 

 So I guess what I'm saying is sometimes these things happen, usually on purpose or sometimes things just fester out of control but as long as we don't hold grudges I'm sure we'll all be fine with that and hopefully newbies won't see it when and if it does happen again.

 

No, absolutely no! This is probably my single biggest problem with this forum, the idea that one person's opinion is better than someone else's. A few decades ago the "shared view" was that black people were second class citizens, and around the world women are still treated this way. Being in the majority doesn't automatically make you right. The same goes for the reverse, as sad and offensive as it may be. People have the right to have unpopular opinions, it's the fundamental basis to Free Speech.

 

===================================================================

 

I would also agree with llama that this has gotten a lot better recently. The remaining occurrences seem to happen between people who share a lingering tension towards each other. This is probably a problem that will not be fixed, because you can't stop people from holding a grudge. 

 

Edit: I would also like to add that I now some places like the Mako Reactor will always have a certain amount of snarking and dog piling, because these are basic ways of debating a point. The entire point of a debate is why one opinion is more right than another. However, there is still no reason to tear someone apart for having a different opinion. The Mako Reactor is not the only place I've seen these taking place either. All have occurred in the Tech Center, and I've also seen evidence of it in the Anime and Manga section as well.

Edited June 22, 2013 by L4ugh

[Dark_Angel13]

 

I would recommend rethinking this strategy, it's probably the single biggest reason why I'm one of the least popular members on this forum. I imagine it has a lot to do with why Rune was banned as well. What seems stupid to you may not be stupid to someone else, and everyone is aloud to have an opinion. Attacking people because they annoy you isn't a good excuse. Use the report button if you think they're just trolling for an argument. Taking it upon yourself to shut them up could be considered a form of mini-modding.

 

 

It wasn't a strategy, it was a view on it and I don't do it to members who misunderstand, I do it to idiots who spam posts or post something absolutely in the wrong place because they just do whatever they feel like. I'm aware everyone is ALLOWED an opinion and I wasnt using it as an excuse. If I'm allowed to voice my own opinion then I should be able to jump on people when they're acting like an idiot with my opinion or am I just meant to keep it to myself because it may be seen as flaming or something?

 

No, absolutely no! This is probably my single biggest problem with this forum, the idea that one person's opinion is better than someone else's. A few decades ago the "shared view" was that black people were second class citizens, and around the world women are still treated this way. Being in the majority doesn't automatically make you right. The same goes for the reverse, as sad and offensive as it may be. People have the right to have unpopular opinions, it's the fundamental basis to Free Speech.

 

A few things here. 1. This isnt 1950 and our issues arent with race or feminism. 2. No matter where you go in the world there are always going to be conflicting views and no one said being the majority made you right but it doesnt make you wrong either. If you truly think you are right you're going to back up your words and be offensive if someone mocks them etc. 3. I know people have the right to say whatever they wish but at the same time you're saying we shouldnt express ourselves because it may come of as snarky etc.

 

The baseline of this is NO MATTER who you are, where you go or what you do there is always going to be someone who doesnt agree with you or like you. You cant go shouting freedom of speech because the forums doesnt delete peoples posts when they say things, others might react to them but they arent silenced, it's their own choice to stop trying to make their argument valid or speak.

 

You also seem to of taken my words wrong as it wasn't me expressing that I think it's all right to do, I'm just saying it's going to happen no matter what you do, unless you go and remove every member who doesnt have something in common with another which basically means no one should be here. This may of sounded snarky but I was a little annoyed when you seemed to think I meant it was the right thing to do.

 

I think I ranted a little there but oh well, freedom of speech right?

[† Emotional Outlet]

Haha, ya. Maybe I worded that wrongly. To say "I don't have a problem with it" wasn't exactly true. It's more like. "If you're not going to express your point I'm going to skim over your post", which is a terrible thing. Every post deserves to be read, but when it's so blunt, and leaves no openings for discussion, ugh. It's just like. "Okay then. That discussion was fun while it lasted."

 

It's okay, I understood what you meant, haha. Sometimes it is easier to just dismiss people who are acting like that than try to engage them in any sort of meaningful conversation. But if we ignore that kind of behaviour too long and just write it off as "that's just how they are", then resentment builds and stuff gets way out of hand. There's a line between not stirring the pot and letting people get away with peeing in the pot.

 

There was a page limit on threads. So it would be like. "Hellsing I" and once that reached it's 20th page (200 posts I think?), that thread got moved to the archive and "Hellsing II" was started. (The last 5-10 posts of the previous thread was quoted into the next thread) I didn't mind that system. Then again. I don't mind 100pages in a thread, and what have you.

But if it's a 5 word reply thread "What's your top 5 anime", I don't really see the need to cut that up into multiple threads. Each post is pretty much a duplicate of the last, so that can go on for 1000s of pages.

 

So if it's just a dumping grounds, let it go on into infinity, but threads like ongoing anime discussions and Random Talk could benefit from being refreshed?

I know there was a problem with the previous system where really long threads started loading slower, but I don't believe that's a problem currently? I haven't been keeping up with the games threads, so if it has been slowing down, let me know.

 

We've had a discussion previously about freedom of speech on Internet fora.

 

Here's the thing--yes, you have the right to express yourself, but Kametsu isn't a country, it doesn't have a government, and none of us are citizens. It's a private forum run by volunteers where people are free to come and go as they please. To keep things from spiraling into insanity or creating a scorched earth environment, we do need to limit the kinds of things people say. This includes not only limiting people from hurling insults at each other and setting out flame bait, but keeping microaggressions like sarcasm and dismissive attitudes in check.

 

I don't think L4ugh is advocating people to shut up unless they agree with others, they're saying there are ways of disagreeing with each other that don't involve being sarcastic, condescending, or abusive. Yes, we're all guilty of doing this--that doesn't mean we can't strive to be better about it and acknowledge that acting this way isn't conducive to a safe forum environment.

 

It's easier to be a regular member than a mod in this regard, because as regular members, if you don't like someone? Just ignore them. Put them on your ignore list and all their posts just disappear. You don't have to deal with them ever again if you don't want to. You definitely can't do that in real life unless you actually want to uproot your life and schedule to avoid dealing with one annoying person.

 

I can't do that. I can't pick favourites. And I can't abide by people attempting to drive away certain members just because they don't get along or think they don't belong here.

 

I'm not advocating people sitting by and letting people create an unsafe environment. I don't think anyone here is calling for that. I do advocate people actually making reports and telling the staff what's going on so we can step in and diffuse a situation before it gets out of hand.

 

Situations where one person is being abusive and is met with abuse from another makes it difficult to handle because instead of just punishing one person, we have to punish two or more. Situations where one person is unpopular or disliked but isn't abusive, and is being treated poorly means that we will likely have to punish the person acting negatively towards them, regardless of respective popularity.

 

It doesn't matter if you think a member is stupid or ignorant or insufferable. It doesn't matter if you think the forum will be better off without them. This kind of vigilantism doesn't have a place on the forum. Let us, the staff, do our job instead of taking it in your own hands.

 

Don't create an environment where it looks like as long as you're here long enough, you can get away with saying whatever you want. Don't create an environment where newbies feel unwelcome because they aren't part of the club. Don't create an environment where people think that after they've been here a while, they're part of a community guard responsible for keeping out the rabble.

 

If you want to have a place filled with people you personally have approved into your community, that's your prerogative, but this is not the place to do it. Kametsu is an open community and we should strive to maintain an environment that actually demonstrates such.

 

Again--we will eject members who drive away others. We will eject members who act in a manner so disruptive that normal discussions can't be held. We will eject trolls. But that's a decision the staff makes, not the members. Your part in this is telling us what is going on and submitting evidence where possible.

[Snowburden]

Hey, Emotional Outlet, I was wondering if you could answer my question from above and such? Just want your thoughts of how you would view it, to maybe get more people to join. This is a great community and such, but it's just really sad that it takes hours or days for someone to finally post you know...? :/

 

[† Emotional Outlet]

Advertising has been brought up before. We do have a Facebook page and Twitter, though those don't get a whole lot of traffic or are updated frequently from what I can see. They're mostly used to inform people when outages and downtime occurs, though I suppose it could be used to post updates and maybe highlight a few threads. Regardless, I think only Koby has access to these accounts.

 

My personal take on it is bringing in new people may not necessarily improve the environment. We have gotten some very outgoing and talkative newbies who, for one reason or another, have left the community. If we can't retain new people, then the advertising is almost wasted effort. We need to give them a reason to stay; to do that, I think we should first focus our efforts on making sure the people who are already here and already committed in some way to this place are happy.

 

When current denizens are happy, then in theory, it should be easier to keep newbies around, because we aren't expecting them to do the work of fixing our community. And really, we shouldn't expect new people to shoulder that burden.

 

It is unfortunate that posts often go unreplied to for days at a time, if they're responded to at all. I see a lot of people express their misgivings about posting when they feel like they can't contribute, and I can certainly sympathise. No one wants to be that person who awkwardly steps into a conversation where they don't know what's going on and look like an idiot. And I think a good number of our regulars, myself included, have expressed some level of social anxiety. I've also seen some people say they don't like to post because they believe they will be ignored, which ends up being rather cyclical, I think.

 

I think that contributes to a sort of inertia, making it easier to justify not posting ("I have nothing to contribute", "I'm just repeating other people", "No one cares what I have to say") until the point of not doing it at all. Sometimes I have to convince myself that I really should post, even though my normal inclination is to run away, haha.

 

I've also noticed some folk recently adopt a very serious and almost business-like demeanour when posting around here and it's very disheartening because I do want this to be a place where people can kick up their feet and relax in addition to having serious discussion. I don't know what's contributing to that, but I feel like that might be a bit off-putting to others.

 

Like sometimes it even seems a little condescending, like instead of speaking to each other as peers, they're talking like they're teaching a class or are otherwise in some sort of position above others. That just might be me, though.

 

Anyway, we get a good number of people logging in every day. There's at least 200 people who have logged in over the past 24 hours, and that's not counting those who may have been lurking without logging in or those without accounts.

 

Basically I don't think our issue is so much lack of members as it is something in the air that encourages people to keep quiet instead of posting.

[† L4ugh]

I don't think L4ugh is advocating people to shut up unless they agree with others, they're saying there are ways of disagreeing with each other that don't involve being sarcastic, condescending, or abusive. Yes, we're all guilty of doing this--that doesn't mean we can't strive to be better about it and acknowledge that acting this way isn't conducive to a safe forum environment.

 

Yes, this was exactly what I was trying to say.

 

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It wasn't a strategy, it was a view on it and I don't do it to members who misunderstand, I do it to idiots who spam posts or post something absolutely in the wrong place because they just do whatever they feel like.

 

It doesn't really matter what you call it, it's not our job to enforce the rules. I get just as mad as you do when I see people posting this way, and I know how hard it is to not rage on these people. The problem is nothing you do is going to change their behavior. Leechers don't care about having a heated discussion with you on forum rules, they just want to download anime. A heated discussion is exactly what a Troll and Ani-tard are looking for however, so all you'd be doing is giving them what they want. 

[Dark_Angel13]

 

 

It wasn't a strategy, it was a view on it and I don't do it to members who misunderstand, I do it to idiots who spam posts or post something absolutely in the wrong place because they just do whatever they feel like.

 

It doesn't really matter what you call it, it's not our job to enforce the rules. I get just as mad as you do when I see people posting this way, and I know how hard it is to not rage on these people. The problem is nothing you do is going to change their behavior. Leechers don't care about having a heated discussion with you on forum rules, they just want to download anime. A heated discussion is exactly what a Troll and Ani-tard are looking for however, so all you'd be doing is giving them what they want.

 

How exactly is it me enforcing the rules because I talk to someone in a certain way? Unless I'm quoting the FAQ or something? I'm aware nothing I do is going to change their behaviour but I have the right to express myself and yeah it can be hard to hold back from flaming and I do use the report button quite a bit. I really think you've misunderstood just about everything I've said so far. Not trying to say you're stupid or anything considering we're discussing ways to make the forum better but yeah, I think it'd be best if we didnt exchange any more words on the topic of dogpiling and shit like that.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Dark_Angel13