Jump to content
RikuoAmero

Plot breakers

Recommended Posts

Hey guys,

I'm making a list of what I call plot breakers. We all know what plot-holes are, but here in Naruto's case, they actually break the story entirely when you think about it. There are characters making decisions out of character, as in, if these characters were real people and you asked them why they made this particular decision in the story, they wouldn't have a reason at all.

In case you're wondering, I love the world of Naruto. What I hate though is when the characters make bone-headed decisions or do something else incomprehensible.

1) First one I can think off straight off the bat, is when Naruto's stolen the Sacred Scroll in Episode 1. The Hokage sends off a large group of ninja to look for him...all the while knowing where he is because he can see Naruto in his crystal ball. Is Sarutobi concerned about Naruto's safety? He clearly isn't in this case, because some of the ninja hate Naruto (because of the Kyuubi) and would likely kill him, using the theft of the scroll as an excuse.

2) Naruto himself is a plot breaker, or rather his parentage. At first, for the purposes of the story, we're told he's an orphan, he's got the Kyuubi in him. He's hated by the village people etc etc.

Then we learn that his father was the Fourth Hokage! For some reason, Naruto's parentage was kept from him, and he had to grow up in an orphanage, only later on getting his own room/apartment (and presumably living by/raising himself). There's never a good reason given for why he was raised this way. Some people say its to protect him from enemies of his father...except everyone knows about Konohamaru and his grandfather is the Third Hokage, so...why not let Naruto know about his father? Sarutobi wouldn't have had to tell anyone about the Kyuubi (just tell everyone it died) and thus, Naruto wouldn't have had a crappy childhood.

Another thing is the fact Kakashi and Jiraiya never bothered to get to know him. Kakashi, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt: its never explicitly mentioned that he knew about Kushina's pregnancy. It is entirely possible that after leaving Team Minato, he and Minato drifted apart.

Jiraiya though has no excuse. Its said that he was named godfather to Naruto. Some godfather he was!

Now, I'm not saying that you can't write child abandonment into a story. However, if you do, the child who was abandoned should question his loved ones once he learns the truth. Here we have Naruto, he grew up alone, he learns who his parents are, and he realises that Jiraiya taught his father, and that Kakashi was taught by his father. Yet...there is never a scene at all of Naruto questioning them. Naruto builds Jiraiya a memorial, but there is no mention of the fact in that scene that Naruto knows that Jiraiya knew about his parents. He doesn't question at all whether Jiraiya was ever truthful to him.

3) Sarutobi never bothered selecting a second successor. He retired and selected Minato Namikaze to become the Fourth Hokage. After Minato's death, he came out of retirement and ruled as Hokage for the next thirteen years, all without bothering to choose the Fifth Hokage. Remember, this guy is supposed to be clever and wise. It wouldn't have been beyond him to train someone to Kage level, to succeed him. Yet...he never bothers. This becomes especially ridiculous when Sarutobi admits that he doesn't think he can beat Orochimaru. So, we, as readers, are told that Sarutobi can't beat Orochimaru, allows Orochimaru to run around the village during the Chuunin exams, and never has a contingency plan in place in the case of his death?

4) The choosing of the Fifth Hokage is another plot breaker, beyond Sarutobi's idiocy.

First, this would have been the perfect moment for Danzo to step in, instead of later, when the incumbent Hokage is merely in a (temporary) coma. The reason Danzo didn't is because he hadn't been written yet.

Aside from Danzo, Jiraiya refuses the position. Yes, I can understand his refusal: he doesn't feel like he's qualified, he feels responsible for getting both his sensei and student killed. So he suggests Tsunade. This woman had abandoned Konoha years before, and had taken to the life of a wandering alcoholic gambler. Yes, she was called one of the most powerful shinobi in the world, but still...the village elders, who want to protect the village, are willing to let someone who walked away years ago to just waltz back in and run the place? Imagine that you're the Secretary of Defense, and your top general has been killed. You need someone to replace him...so the first place you start looking is the MIA list?

5) Gaara becoming Kazekage is a real plot breaker.

A Kage is the strongest, wisest and most skilled ninja in his/her village, as well as loved and/or respected by the people and ninja. This is everything that Gaara is NOT.

Gaara is 15-16 at the start of Shippuden. Prior to that, he had been a Genin. First off, he had shown no talent or ability whatsoever. Yes, he had control over sand, but that was something he'd had all his life. He never trained with it, and all he did was stand around. This meant that he never bothered training to discover his weaknesses. When someone as stupid as Rock Lee can figure out your weaknesses and exploit them, then you know you've F*cked up.

As well as his lack of skill, Gaara was hated by his village. He was a psychopath who killed for no reason. He heard a voice in his head (okay, this voice was actually a real demon, not a sign of madness) and listened to it when it wanted him to kill.

Gaara does change his personality after getting the snot beaten out of him by Naruto. But it would have taken him years to earn any sort of goodwill from the Sand people. At least, that's what would happen in the real world. Would you want as your leader someone who had wandered your hometown killing for sport?

Another reason he could have become Kazekage, is that maybe the Sand Village has the child of the previous leader succeed him. Except, Gaara is the youngest child. If the Sand Village did that, then why not select Temari?

As a result, Gaara has none of the qualities you look for in a Kage. Absolutely none. Someone once mentioned to me a while back that the village elders did it to keep an eye on him...so apparently, they couldn't watch him when he was a mere Genin and had no official power of any kind?

So with regards to Gaara, we're left with one of two scenarios. The first, is that more or less immediately after the Chuunin exams, he became the Fifth Kazekage, with the people having changed their minds on him practically overnight. Or...he spent the two and a half years between Part I and Part II training and getting the village to like him, only becoming Kazekage probably like a few days before Temari mentions it to Naruto upon his return to Konoha: the problem with that is, that would have meant that the Sand Village would be without a Kazekage for over two years .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i can follow everything but the part of the 3rd being naruto's grandfather. and in the anime when naruto was named they stated jiraiya being his grandfather, or that might be a flaw in the subs i watched. i can understand him being both or either one really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i can follow everything but the part of the 3rd being naruto's grandfather. and in the anime when naruto was named they stated jiraiya being his grandfather, or that might be a flaw in the subs i watched. i can understand him being both or either one really.

you're definitely watching broken subs. The Third Hokage, this guy

ThirdHokage.jpg

has at least two children: one unnamed and Asuma Sarutobi (this guy)

Asuma_Sarutobi.png

The Third's unnamed child had a son, Konohamaru

Konohamaru2.jpg

The Third is of no relation to Naruto at all.

Jiraiya is Naruto's GODfather. Not his grandfather. I suggest looking for better subs, the ones you have now are just wrong.

EDIT: I just remembered a peculiarity about Japanese culture. Over there, its common to call any old man (especially an old man you respect) "Grandfather" or "Old Man". They're not actually saying that this old man is their literal grandparent, it's just a sign of respect. That could be what your subs actually mean. Although I find it strange about Jiraiya: Naruto's famous for calling him Ero-Sennin or "Pervy-Sage" in English. I don't think I've once seen or heard Naruto call him "Old Man" or "Gramps", which IIRC, he has called the Third Hokage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow... Can you also review bleach? I can see a longer page than the one above for it, mainly because its got plotholes created to badly cover plotholes...

Eh...I haven't watched Bleach nearly as long as I have Naruto. I'll say this about Bleach: the fact that its about the afterlife (named Soul Society) is the biggest plot breaker I have ever seen in anything

1) Its said you can be born and DIE in the afterlife.

2) Its never once said what happens if you die in the afterlife (I'm pretty sure Hollows come from the souls of humans in our world).

3) Also never explained is why the entirety of Soul Society is modeled around 15th century Japan. Are there other Soul Society's modeled after different cultures?

4) Its never explained why Ichigo's dad (who is later revealed to be an ex-Soul Reaper) never goes to Soul Society for his wife.

5) Can someone explain to me why exactly Head Captain Yamamoto lets...how many? 6 Captains, 3 Lieutenants, plus Hachigen and Tessai go (referring to the creation of the Vizard storyline)? That's basically half your top level officers gone at once. I thought becoming a Captain was extremely difficult, yet apparently Yamamoto was able to replace this many people at once.

EDIT: Looked up the Bleach wiki site, regarding Point 2, it mentions that if you die in Soul Society, you're reborn in the human world as a new human with no past memories.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EDIT: Looked up the Bleach wiki site, regarding Point 2, it mentions that if you die in Soul Society, you're reborn in the human world as a new human with no past memories.

But then what happens if a living human who enters Soul Society dies over there, do they again end up in Soul Society? or are they thrown back in Human world?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, on to Plot Breaker Number 6

6) The fact Itachi is a good guy...or was he?

I introduce to you Itachi Uchiha. He was the strongest member of the Uchiha clan, who for some reason, four years before the start of the series, went rogue and killed off the entire clan. Yes, the ENTIRE clan, men, women and children...except for his little brother.

As a story mechanic, this served as a motive for Sasuke's lust for power. It also established the next great villain in the story, since Orochimaru was at that time incapacitated.

Then, for some reason, we have a plot twist, but a twist that barely works. Not only was Itachi the strongest Uchiha EVAR (not counting Madara), but he was a... pacifist ? I can't quite equate those two...member of the ANBU (the elite of the elite of a village of ninjas ) and pacifist? Not only that, it turns out he was ordered to kill the clan in order to stop the Uchiha from staging a coup d'etat.

Okay, I can see that working, but such an order would work if Itachi only went after the clan leaders and maybe all of the active ninja, if you want to go that far. Such an order, prevent a coup by wiping out a clan, doesn't make sense if you include civilians and other non-combatants. Don't remind me that Itachi had Tobi's help. Let me remind you, that Itachi asked for Tobi's help.

So basically, the plot breaker here is that Itachi is a villain, a monster...but he's not a monster. Yes, people are multidimensional and have many sides to them. But, from what I can see here, is a guy who was written into the story as a villain, and then the author tries later on to twist and bend him into somewhat of a good guy.

Other anime characters have done monstrous deeds, only to later on be found good. Code Geass, for example has

Lelouch, the main character, conquer the entire world only to orchestrate his own death, in order to stop the endless wars between nations

. The difference between Code Geass and here is that the monstrous deed had a point that actually made sense. Itachi here did a monstrous deed, that has no good point no matter which way you twist it.

In order to make Itachi work, here's how I would have written it

1) Sasuke mentions he wants to kill his older brother. Itachi is introduced.

2) Itachi is infamous for killing off the leaders of the clan, leaving only weaker ninjas to rule the Uchiha, thus causing a fall in the clan's power. This causes the Hyuuga to rise to prominence. There is enmity and jealousy between the Hyuuga and Uchiha as a result.

3) Itachi was a Jonin (sorry, can't picture canon pacifist Itachi as ANBU) who specialized in capture, tracking and interrogation. His pacifistic nature stopped him from killing if he was able to. He only ever killed when absolutely necessary. He's still insanely strong.

4) Tobi infiltrates the village, and convinces the Uchiha leaders to begin preparations for a coup.

5) Itachi hears of this. As a a pacifist, he doesn't want a civil war. He informs Sarutobi.

6) At close to the same time, Jiraiya reports in of a new group formed of S-rank missing-nin, calling themselves the Akatsuki. A ruthless and devious plan is concocted: Itachi is the only Uchiha on the Hokage's side and the only person who could get close to the Uchiha leaders without raising suspicion. Itachi is ordered to kill the clan leaders and then flee the village, and attempt to join the Akatsuki, as a spy. (Despite what I've heard from others, there is no evidence in manga that Itachi was ordered to join Akatsuki. As far as its shown, he follows orders goes on the run and then just joins them for no explained reason). Jiraiya, Sarutobi, Danzo and the village elders are the only ones to know of Itachi's status as a spy. Jiraiya will be his handler, the person to whom he reports anything he finds out.

7) Just before the hit is carried out, Itachi is found by Shisui Uchiha, his former sensei, who suspected Itachi of betraying the clan. They fight, Itachi wins and awakens the Mangekyou Sharingan.

8) Itachi carries out the hit, but is seen by his younger brother. In a panic (barely believable, I know but remember, Itachi loves his brother, doesn't want him to see him murdering their parents, so it would be understandable for even Itachi to lose his nerve), Itachi instinctively uses Tsukuyomi on Sasuke. He then flees.

9) It is only later, upon joining Akatsuki, that Itachi learns of Tobi, and his involvement with the planned coup. However, he can't do anything. Tobi is too strong (he knows all about the Mangekyou, and apparently can control others' Mangekyou). So, he basically learns that the clan leaders were duped. He also learns that Tobi was in contact with Danzo at the same time. He puts in place a complex plan of his own. He will periodically appear before Sasuke and goad him into getting stronger, and hopefully, get Sasuke to kill him. This will serve as a punishment for Itachi, redeem his clan's dishonor, and hopefully make sure Sasuke is strong enough to take on Tobi. He also sends word to Danzo, not to harm Sasuke, or Itachi will in truth betray the village.

Also, on the point of Itachi being Jiraiya's spy, it explains how Jiraiya is able to say that the Akatsuki will be dormant for the two and a half years. How else could he have learned this, except from Itachi?

There, I made Itachi work as a story element. I can't see any flaws in what I wrote. If there are, let me know. I know that most of it was taken from canon, but that's to prove how Kishimoto had all the pieces to make the Itachi plot great, but didn't use them properly.

PLOT BREAKER #7

It's been a while since I added to this but anyhoo...

The entire Shinobi Alliance thing. Ever since I first read about it, it just rubbed me the wrong way. Given the history of the Naruto world, such an alliance shouldn't be possible.

These are five different countries that have had three wars against one another in the last eighty years. There has been bloodshed and much ill-will built up between the villages, such that there is little to no trust...or at least, there shouldn't be. I'd expect for there to have been a lot more dissent from the shinobi, not just, what was it? One or two guys saying "I don't trust you!" and then Gaara making one speech? That's all it took to cure decades of hatred and mistrust?

Related to the Alliance is the numbers we get...eighty thousand! Okay, some of them are samurai, but if we divide eighty thousand by six (the five ninja villages plus the samurai), we get 13,333, which is the average manpower of each village.

First off, the economics of supporting 13,000 shinobi doesn't work. From what we're told, random people contact a shinobi village, say they have a mission to do X and are willing to pay Y depending on the difficulty rating the Kage gives it (D-, C-, B-, A-, S-ranked). Is Kishimoto really saying that there's 80,000 mission requests every day?

Secondly, its the fact the shinobi are gathered as an army . Shinobi are not an army. If they were in the real world, they would function like Navy SEALS or SWAT teams. You would never see an army of SEALS gathered, because they are trained and function best in small squads.

This is what we've been seeing in Naruto for the past fourteen years. Small squads of shinobi being used to accomplish missions - the only other time (not counting movies) we've seen a large-scale battle is the Sand/Sound invasion of Konoha. So basically, the five Kage meet in a room and say to each other "Gee whiz! Ya know what we should have our men do? We should gather them into huge brigades, thousands of men each, all next to each other, cuz apparently they're now friends and such! Nope! Not a one of em would think of settling past grudges, nope! Not only that, but not a single ninja is trained to fight in such conditions! But that doesn't matter! So what if we're just putting all our eggs into one basket! It's not like they can all be killed at once!" *ninja courier runs up and reports that Madara Uchiha has just dropped a meteor on top of the army* "Oh...man, do I feel stupid now!!!!"

Now, if its true that Konoha has roughly speaking 13,000 shinobi, it makes Sarutobi even more of an idiot. He has thirteen thousand shinobi to choose from and apparently, not a single one of them has the potential to be a Kage? Not even, say, Kakashi?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, its been a while since I've added to this, so here we go. To re-iterate, a plot breaker is something that has a major impact on the plot, that at the very least, is only ever explained by having to twist logic and common sense into a pretzel shape.

PLOT BREAKER #8#

Orochimaru and his Impure World Resurrection Jutsu i.e. he can bring back the dead. When we're first introduced to Orochimaru, what is it he's after, what is it he's been putting a lot of effort towards obtaining?

The Sharingan.

Orochimaru wants to learn all the jutsu in the world and he feels he can speed up the process if he uses a Sharingan to copy other people's jutsu. Okay, that's a decent motivation to have, not gonna complain there. However, he's stymied in his goal by the simple fact that he is aware of only four living people in possession of a Sharingan eye: namely, Danzo (whom he helped when Danzo got Shisui's eye, and that right there is a plot hole), Kakashi Hatake, Sasuke Uchiha and Itachi Uchiha. Orochimaru once fought against Itachi and lost, badly, and Kakashi himself says that at best, he can take out Orochimaru but only at the cost of his own life. Danzo, I bet Orochimaru doesn't want to cross him, probably because he feels Danzo might be useful in the future.

So, that means Orochimaru didn't want to touch three of the four known living Sharingan holders. He therefore turned his attention to Sasuke, whom he wanted to lure to him. While it seems that Orochimaru could have kidnapped the boy at any time (he certainly managed to infiltrate the Leaf village easily enough, and was only ever seen when he wanted to be seen), it is apparent that he wanted to wait for Sasuke to grow up and train. While he could have kidnapped him and possessed him at any time, he would have had to train his new body. It would be a far better use of his time if instead Sasuke trained on his own, and then, Orochimaru possessed him.

Okay, that's a good plan, and a good plot for the manga/anime...except for one thing...OROCHIMARU CAN BRING BACK THE DEAD! WITH KEKKEI GENKAI!

Remember when Orochimaru invaded the Leaf village and fought against the Third Hokage? What did he do? He brought back the First and Second Hokage, and more importantly, the First Hokage was brought back with his Wood Style Kekkei Genkai intact. The jutsu Orochimaru used has been confirmed to be able to bring back other Kekkei Genkai, as Kabuto brought back Itachi Uchiha and Nagato, and they had the Sharingan and Rinnegan respectively.

To use the Resurrection Jutsu, Orochimaru needed DNA from the person he wants to bring back. He somehow obtained the First and Second Hokage's DNA, and more than likely, their bodies (and relics that may contain their DNA, say a dagger that wounded them) would have been highly protected. Look at the lengths the Hyuuga go to to protect the Byakugan. If Orochimaru was skilled enough to steal Hokage DNA, surely he could have done the same for the Uchiha? It wouldn't have had to have been anyone particularly strong. A random adult Uchiha who died in his prime (like, oh, I dunno, Sasuke's father, Fugaku, head of the clan, a Jonin?). Hell, this would have been the perfect plan for Orochimaru. Bring back Fugaku, possess his now immortal body and (if Kabuto is telling the truth in the latest chapter), the only way to kill him is to either seal him or for Orochimaru to end the jutsu willingly.

Somehow, I doubt Orochimaru was this dumb. He had opportunity staring him in the face and instead, he went for the more time consuming, more dangerous and more risky plan of...waiting for Sasuke to grow up, entice him to betray the Leaf, and then hopefully possess him.

Just to head off anyone who might reply with "A three tomoe Sharingan can counter Orochimaru's jutsu, this is what Sasuke did"...I counter that with Orochimaru didn't know that. As far as he SHOULD have known, he should have been able to steal Fugaku's DNA, resurrect him, and possess his body, no problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read all the plot breakers here and they are just brilliant. But I didn't quite understand this part:

First off, the economics of supporting 13,000 shinobi doesn't work. From what we're told, random people contact a shinobi village, say they have a mission to do X and are willing to pay Y depending on the difficulty rating the Kage gives it (D-, C-, B-, A-, S-ranked). Is Kishimoto really saying that there's 80,000 mission requests every day?

Why would there be a need of 80,000 mission requests per day to support 13,000 shinobi. Please, can someone explain this part a little.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I read all the plot breakers here and they are just brilliant. But I didn't quite understand this part:

Why would there be a need of 80,000 mission requests per day to support 13,000 shinobi. Please, can someone explain this part a little.

Sorry, that was poor wording on my part. 80,000 mission requests every day to support 80,000 shinobi from all five villages. About the only way I can see it working is the fee charged for each mission doesn't just go to the shinobi handling each mission: there's a percentage for the ninja being used, and a percentage going to the village. From the village percentage, some is used to pay other ninja (sorta like social welfare, I guess...) But again, this breaks down simply because there are tens of thousands of ninja.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry, that was poor wording on my part. 80,000 mission requests every day to support 80,000 shinobi from all five villages. About the only way I can see it working is the fee charged for each mission doesn't just go to the shinobi handling each mission: there's a percentage for the ninja being used, and a percentage going to the village. From the village percentage, some is used to pay other ninja (sorta like social welfare, I guess...) But again, this breaks down simply because there are tens of thousands of ninja.

Normally ninja work in squads, so really there only needs to be around 25,000 per day. In addition, the fact that most ninja are genin and would be doing the sucky little jobs like fixing stuff or pulling weeds should be added in. Finally, the big missions would be worth a substantial fee, with danger pay and that added in.

Other than that, each ninja village is funded by the land surrounding them and the feudal lords, plus they are a village and so would get a cut of the sales that go on in the village. With this in account, the economics could work as long as ninjas ran shops like Ino's family, then it could theoretically work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Other than that, each ninja village is funded by the land surrounding them and the feudal lords,

I myself was thinking about this point here and completely agree with you. In fact I think that most the yearly revenue of a Land goes to serve the necessities of their respective ninja villages. Up until what we saw we can say that the ninja villages are more of military colony with independence in most sectors. Such a military colony is practically impossible inside an independent Land. Yet I believe this can still be possible if the following two things are followed:

1. The Shinobis will have a separate place to live(in this case ninja villages) inside the Land with sovereignty in almost all sectors.The Land will also provide their respective Village with a fixed amount of money each year.

2. In return, the Shinobis will help their respective Land in times of war with other lands. Also they will work to provide internal security to the Land itself.

Taking this point and combining them with the other points Lemmingllama mentioned, I too believe that the ninja villages have a well to do earning each year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...