Latest Naruto Manga Discussion [Spoiler]

[RikuoAmero]

Here's the link to the naruto manga chapter 601: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/601

A few things happening in this chapter here. First of all it seems madara successfully defeated the 5 kages and is now going for the tailed beasts. But the most interesting thing happened in the last page. It seems madara himself saved obito, but maybe just not the way we have imagined up until now. Guess we will just have to wait and see what kishi does now.

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/601/12

Read what Madara says on the bottom of the page. He says Obito revived him.

Uhhh....Madara? It was Kabuto who revived you! You yourself know this, because upon being rezzed, Kabuto told you via the rezzed Second Tsuchikage. Tobi had nothing to do with your being rezzed!

Edited September 12, 2012 by RikuoAmero

[Koby]

So Tsunade is cut in half? Look at that huge rock or w/e... you see here feet hanging out like 20 feet away from her head and the snail talks about joining her body back. Tsunade is more worried about saving the other Kage though, so seems likely she'll save ALL of them, but die herself.

So Madara just happens to chance upon a fallen Uchiha boy crushed under rocks and decides to save him? Or did he actually die and Madara resurrected him after finding his body by chance? Was it really by chance? I can't really see it being intentional because then why him? Why a lost 12 year old boy who died in a war and had only just achieved 2-tomoe? There is no way they could have known what abilities his eye would have at that time.

Kishi still fails to explain how Obito could have been involved with giving Nagato the Rinnegan an entire war before Obito was even born. Still waiting on him to explain how how he became how he is. Are we to believe that Madara somehow brainwashed him? Because he seems to be doing this of his own accord from the talk with Madara. I just don't buy his wanting to destroy the world simply because Kakashi didn't protect Rin from dying though. That should make him at most go after Kakashi and those responsible.

[Leviathan]

Here's the link to the naruto manga chapter 601: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/601

A few things happening in this chapter here. First of all it seems madara successfully defeated the 5 kages and is now going for the tailed beasts. But the most interesting thing happened in the last page. It seems madara himself saved obito, but maybe just not the way we have imagined up until now. Guess we will just have to wait and see what kishi does now.

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/601/12

Read what Madara says on the bottom of the page. He says Obito revived him.

Uhhh....Madara? It was Kabuto who revived you! You yourself know this, because upon being rezzed, Kabuto told you via the rezzed Second Tsuchikage. Tobi had nothing to do with your being rezzed!

Come on Rikuo, you noticed that but not this : http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/560/2

And Rikuo, surely you don't consider this to be a plot hole or something like that. Obito is the captain of this operation and nagato (and akatsuki) was nothing more than his lackeys. If you think carefully everything up until now happened according to obito's will, madara's revival being nothing more than that. If obito hadn't wanted then, madara would never be revived. Madara himself knows this. It was the plan that Nagato would be the one to revive Madara on command of Obito, but Madara rises from the grave to find that Kabuto is the one who summoned him, which was not the plan. So, Madara asks Obito if it was his will to revive him like this and not according to the way planned. There is nothing wrong with what Madara said here.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Leviathan

[RikuoAmero]

Here's the link to the naruto manga chapter 601: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/601

A few things happening in this chapter here. First of all it seems madara successfully defeated the 5 kages and is now going for the tailed beasts. But the most interesting thing happened in the last page. It seems madara himself saved obito, but maybe just not the way we have imagined up until now. Guess we will just have to wait and see what kishi does now.

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/601/12

Read what Madara says on the bottom of the page. He says Obito revived him.

Uhhh....Madara? It was Kabuto who revived you! You yourself know this, because upon being rezzed, Kabuto told you via the rezzed Second Tsuchikage. Tobi had nothing to do with your being rezzed!

Come on Rikuo, you noticed that but not this : http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/560/2

And Rikuo, surely you don't consider this to be a plot hole or something like that. Obito is the captain of this operation and nagato (and akatsuki) was nothing more than his lackeys. If you think carefully everything up until now happened according to obito's will, madara's revival being nothing more than that. If obito hadn't wanted then, madara would never be revived. Madara himself knows this. It was the plan that Nagato would be the one to revive Madara on command of Obito, but Madara rises from the grave to find that Kabuto is the one who summoned him, which was not the plan. So, Madara asks Obito if it was his will to revive him like this and not according to the way planned. There is nothing wrong with what Madara said here.

Uhh...what are you talking about? In 601, when he says "Is this why you revived me like this?"...that happens after 560. In 560, he assumed Nagato had revived him, but Kabuto says no, he did. So from then on, Madara knows who was the one who revived him. So to then say later on to a guy who he knows didn't revive him, "Why you did revive me like this?"....is just nonsensical.

[Leviathan]

Here's the link to the naruto manga chapter 601: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/601

A few things happening in this chapter here. First of all it seems madara successfully defeated the 5 kages and is now going for the tailed beasts. But the most interesting thing happened in the last page. It seems madara himself saved obito, but maybe just not the way we have imagined up until now. Guess we will just have to wait and see what kishi does now.

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/601/12

Read what Madara says on the bottom of the page. He says Obito revived him.

Uhhh....Madara? It was Kabuto who revived you! You yourself know this, because upon being rezzed, Kabuto told you via the rezzed Second Tsuchikage. Tobi had nothing to do with your being rezzed!

Come on Rikuo, you noticed that but not this : http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/560/2

And Rikuo, surely you don't consider this to be a plot hole or something like that. Obito is the captain of this operation and nagato (and akatsuki) was nothing more than his lackeys. If you think carefully everything up until now happened according to obito's will, madara's revival being nothing more than that. If obito hadn't wanted then, madara would never be revived. Madara himself knows this. It was the plan that Nagato would be the one to revive Madara on command of Obito, but Madara rises from the grave to find that Kabuto is the one who summoned him, which was not the plan. So, Madara asks Obito if it was his will to revive him like this and not according to the way planned. There is nothing wrong with what Madara said here.

Uhh...what are you talking about? In 601, when he says "Is this why you revived me like this?"...that happens after 560. In 560, he assumed Nagato had revived him, but Kabuto says no, he did. So from then on, Madara knows who was the one who revived him. So to then say later on to a guy who he knows didn't revive him, "Why you did revive me like this?"....is just nonsensical.

Um.....you see Rikuo you are wrong in both cases. Madara did know that it wasn't nagato who revived him even before kabuto introduced himself. Check out the link i provided again, madara asks "who is using this edo tensei" meaning he already knows it isn't nagato. And why wouldn' he know. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/559/2

Kabuto through the edo tensei confirms that it isn't nagato who summoned him.

A village church is destroyed by an army, a church which was not supposed to be destroyed. Who do the president call for explanation? The driver of the tank which blew up the church, or the captain of the squad? Of course the captain of the squad. Obito is the captain here, all decisions are made through his will. So of course madara can ask for an explanation seeing that he wasn't revived according to plan. There is nothing nonsensical here.

[Bardon]

I think I know which angle Rikuo is referring to, except you see when madara was revived kabuto introduced himself as obito's "assistant". So yes thats one valid reason why madara would direct the blame to obito as he already assumed it was his doing from the get-go when he first said before the kage fight that this was not according to plan.

As for the current chapter, seeing the kages in their current state seems a bit.....overkill.

It does look like tsunade might die saving the other kages but if you ask me, it just wouldn't be fitting. This is rather starting to remind me of the pein arc when kakashi, shizune and even hinata (at first glance anyway) got killed off. When it comes to the rinnegan being around, you can never be sure who's going to kick the bucket completely and who's going to stay. Oh and lets not forget bout orochimaru either, him getting revived was another example in itself.

In other news of trollverse, apparently this is the real obito after all as judging by the last page. So its leading down to old madara bringing obito to the dark side while rin's death being a further influence. Speaking of which, what are the chances that both kakashi and obito saw rin die? And then both blaming themselves which led to their mangekyo's awakening? As shown during sasuke vs itachi, you don't need to slay your dearest one to obtain the power. Just experiencing the grief of losing them in front of you is all it would take. Itachi probably may have not killed shunsui either, a guy who's blind by both eyes doesn't have much left on his end and he really may have just simply asked itachi to finish the job for him. Back to kakashi though, still wouldn't make sense why he'd finally get a hold of his mangekyo much much later afterwards. Then again, sasuke thought he awakened his sharingan the first time during haku's fight when instead it was way back during the night that itachi attacked.

Another thing regarding obito's growth, its almost confirmed now that he's fused with a zetsu and that may involve both reforming his body as well as mixing their chakra. Which might explain why minato couldn't recognize him and being at the near same height.

But as far as being a quack who makes bombs out of babies, nearly destroys the village via kyuubi assault, fights at an equivalent level with minato, traveling back in time to meet certain ppl etc etc........yeah I think that would require way WAY more than just mere brainwashing or zetsu mutation.

Lastly, to all those who are worrying bout how madara might've known obito's mangekyo or why he picked him......chances are he didn't. My dibs are that it probably could've been just by mere chance that he found obito and then while training him or whatever he discovered his mangekyo's power. Which imo makes way more sense than predetermining what kind of random uchiha kid he's going to abduct and make him his successor. Its ridiculously impossible that he foresaw the power in him before being awakened, thats like predicting a girl will be pregnant of a black haired boy without even....well....seeing it happen. =P

Edited September 14, 2012 by Bardon

[Leviathan]

Going to talk about the mangekyo awakening part here. I don't think you need to witness a dear one's death or kill a dear one to awake the mangekyo sharingan. After a lot of thought i came to the decision that extreme pain in your heart is enough for the purpose. Infact i don't think you really need pain, i think pain just acts like a catalyst. Madara and Izuna awakened their mangekyo sharingan, to think that guys like those felt pain due to some reason is.....i don't know.....weird. Also, the third data book gives hints to the fact that kamui, a mangekyo ability was achieved through sheer training and needed no pain, though this is unconfirmed.

[Bardon]

Wait a sec, something just occurred to me.....

Simply experiencing extreme pain or jolt in the heart to awaken the mangekyo? Then.....what about when sasuke lost his whole freaking clan?

o____o

What could possibly be more worse than that? Especially for a small boy? It'd turn into a plothole that he didn't acquire his mangekyo back then, unless one first needs to have an actual sharingan that is.

Hence why I find my theory to be more "specific" that you'd either have to be a direct witness of the tragedy or take it upon yourself of the blame for letting it happen (or making it happen) to awaken the power. Either way this is another story how a sharingan is supposed to evolve, like how the heck can someone turn it into a rinnegan of all things which hopefully would be explained altogether.

Above all else, I think kishimoto has copied DBZ enough with all the golden power ups, giant bijuu bombs, time/space antics, revival of characters etc. If he decides to pull a super saiyan requirement on this then I'd call him no more unoriginal than kubo copying yu yu hakusho.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Bardon

[saminyt]

To get a sharingan, u have to have the quality for it (and a little luck ofcourse). Coz not every member can awaken the sharingan.

For the mangekyou, u first need sharingan. The next step is the combination of training and pain. Now, most people think that training comes first and later pain is added to achieve it. But I think that the order doesn't matter. Kakashi already felt the pain losing Rin so he just needed the training. Thats how he was able to awaken the mangekyou. On the other hand, Sasuke had enough training and then felt the pain witnessing Itachi's death. And the reason why his first pain(witnessing the massacre of his clan) cannot be counted can probably be because the pain has to be after awakening the sharingan.

Lastly, the awakening of the rinnegan from the mangekyou. I'm not sure if eternal mangekyou is needed or not, but a combination of mangekyou, senju's cell and further training is required thats for sure. Thats why Madara was able to awaken the rinnegan after getting Hashirama's cells in their battle.

Edited September 14, 2012 by saminyt

[RikuoAmero]

To get a sharingan, u have to have the quality for it (and a little luck ofcourse). Coz not every member can awaken the sharingan.

For the mangekyou, u first need sharingan. The next step is the combination of training and pain. Now, most people think that training comes first and later pain is added to achieve it. But I think that the order doesn't matter. Kakashi already felt the pain losing Rin so he just needed the training. Thats how he was able to awaken the mangekyou. On the other hand, Sasuke had enough training and then felt the pain witnessing Itachi's death. And the reason why his first pain(witnessing the massacre of his clan) cannot be counted can probably be because the pain has to be after awakening the sharingan.

Lastly, the awakening of the rinnegan from the mangekyou. I'm not sure if eternal mangekyou is needed or not, but a combination of mangekyou, senju's cell and further training is required thats for sure. Thats why Madara was able to awaken the rinnegan after getting Hashirama's cells in their battle.

I think the key ingredient for Mangekyou is guilt. Guilt of having caused that person's death (whether directly or indirectly). Sasuke would at best have felt survivor's guilt (why did I live when everyone else died), but he wouldn't have felt guilty of actually causing the massacre.

For Shisui, if I recall correctly, when Naruto vomited up the magic crow and used its power to un-brainwash the rezzed Itachi...didn't Itachi have a flashback where Shisui committed suicide, as in, didn't die by Itachi's hand? I think there, Itachi awoke his Mangekyou because he felt guilty of not being able to save his best friend's life.

I remember reading an interesting fanfic once, positing how Kakashi awoke his Mangekyou. He had Kurenai (I think it was Kurenai) trap him in a Genjutsu that kinda brainwashed him into thinking he was responsible (guilty) for Rin's death.

As for Madara reviving Obito...I believe its a mere contrivance on the author's part, and contrivances are bad. So either Madara knew beforehand what Mangekyou powers Obito would have; or he 'just' happened to pick a Uchiha with Kamui powers, an ability that was just perfect for Tobi, (compare this to Itachi and Sasuke's Mangekyou abilities, which are all combat related). Tobi's ability is dead useful for lots of things: travel, keeping hostages, defense etc.

Plus another plothole. Given that the Kamui power is established to be a Mangekyou power now...why isn't Obito blind? Okay, we haven't seen Tobi actually go to Mangekyou in order to use his ability, but still...

[peinsangel]

So I still don't get how Tobi can be Obito. I understand that Obito and Tobi do have very similar Mangekyou abilities, but as far as personality goes they are nothing alike and I can't see anything altering Obito to the point that he would want to put the whole world under his control. I mean, saying that it was because Rin somehow died and blaming Kakashi for it is ridiculous.

[Bardon]

New chapter is up and its depressing......

Not only is it emphasizing on the good guy that obito was, its further hinting on what obito said bout how he turned bad: "Kakashi, you had ONE job!"

And here I thought kishi would make it easier for us to digest this but this is getting worse. -.-

On another note, now we know why obito looked taller and that it was the real madara himself who met nagato, kisame etc. Those articifical bodies/suits seem like a perfect fit for obito, like senju prosthesis or something. Though their appearance looks almost too convenient, like they were premade for someone who'll use a spiral space/time jutsu? I still think at this point, the idea of madara finding obito and using him was just pure chance. This chapter gives us that notion too, judging by how he explained to have simply found him on an underground cave which HE owns.

................Wait, that doesn't sound right.....

[LWC]

The new chapter puts an interesting twist on things. If madara really manages to turn obito "to the dark side" (how cheesy) then he might fill in obito's missing left eye with his own. This would mean that after nagato's betrayal, obito began to work on his own instead of maintaining madaras original plan, symbolized when he spent madaras sharingan on izanagi, effectively discarding both madara's power and madara's intentions (as seen when he begins the mazou transformation early, claiming to not need a fully powered 10 tailed best for what he has in mind). Also, the shape of the bodies might not be predesigned to match obito's abilities, but directly cause his powers to take on that shape (as well as his spiral mask).

[RikuoAmero]

And here we get more contrivances.
/>http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/602/5

So, Obito survived but even Madara is aware of the plothole that makes. And also, the cave where he died just happens to be where Madara lived? Technically, that does explain how Madara knew where to find Obito's body, but it's still a contrivance.

And in page 6...did Obito make a sex joke? A gay sex joke? I've nothing against gay people, but I just find that line distasteful...

This still doesn't explain why Rin and Kakashi left Obito alive to die a horrible death to starvation and thirst. Surely one of them would have given him a merciful death? And no, it can't be that Madara used Edo Tensei to bring back Obito, because if he had (for one, he would have needed a human sacrifice and it seems that Madara can't leave his lair), then Obito would have been brought back in a fully healed body.

Also...did Madara say he was the one who gave his eyes to Nagato? But...how? Both of Nagato's eyes were Rinnegan eyes, yet here, Madara still has one Sharingan eye! Also...I thought Madara just said he couldn't leave his lair?

God...every attempt by Kishi to try and write Obito=Tobi just results in even more plotholes.

[saminyt]

I think this chapter explains quite a few things and removes a lot of plotholes.

1. Obito's body has Hashirama's cell implanted : explains how he was able to wake up after the rock crushing

2. Madara was the first Tobi giving Nagato both his rinnegan eyes :explains how Tobi/Madara gave Nagato the rinnegan and influenced Yahiko to form the Akatsuki

3. Later on, he just got one eye implanted from a random Uchiha

So its pretty much predictable what will come next:

1. Madara will brainwash Obito (Most probably will show him all of his painful memories and the condition of the rotten world) and give his sharingan eye before dying

2. Obito will become Tobi

Now what Kishi has done is pretty much what we have predicted before with the exception that nobody is controlling Obito (Though it makes a lot more sense in the other way). Anyways, now comes the real plot holes. Tobi's battle with Minato (will take place within 1 year) and his meeting with Kisame (will take place around this time) as a grown man. And I dont even want to mention how Madara was able to convince Obito to attack his own village. So lets see what Kishi will pull out.

Edited September 19, 2012 by saminyt

[RikuoAmero]

I think this chapter explains quite a few things and removes a lot of plotholes.

1. Obito's body has Hashirama's cell implanted : explains how he was able to wake up after the rock crushing

2. Madara was the first Tobi giving Nagato both his rinnegan eyes :explains how Tobi/Madara gave Nagato the rinnegan and influenced Yahiko to form the Akatsuki

3. Later on, he just got one eye implanted from a random Uchiha

So its pretty much predictable what will come next:

1. Madara will brainwash Obito (Most probably will show him all of his painful memories and the condition of the rotten world) and give his sharingan eye before dying

2. Obito will become Tobi

Now what Kishi has done is pretty much what we have predicted before with the exception that nobody is controlling Obito (Though it makes a lot more sense in the other way). Anyways, now comes the real plot holes. Tobi's battle with Minato (will take place within 1 year) and his meeting with Kisame (will take place around this time) as a grown man. And I dont even want to mention how Madara was able to convince Obito to attack his own village. So lets see what Kishi will pull out.

Doesn't explain why, if Obito was able to wriggle his way out from underneath the rocks, he did so only AFTER Kakashi and Rin left him. Madara says somehow that Obito was able to do that and collapsed in a more or less safe part of the cave. Again, why only after Kakashi and Rin left? Why didn't he try and escape before resigning himself to death and having given up an eye?

[saminyt]

Doesn't explain why, if Obito was able to wriggle his way out from underneath the rocks, he did so only AFTER Kakashi and Rin left him. Madara says somehow that Obito was able to do that and collapsed in a more or less safe part of the cave. Again, why only after Kakashi and Rin left? Why didn't he try and escape before resigning himself to death and having given up an eye?

Obito wasn't able to get out when Rin and Kakashi was there because there was a huge rock on top of him. But after they went out and the other rocks fell down, somehow the falling rocks opened up the crater to the underground passage. And when the rock on top of Obito fell down, he was somehow able to slip away just before the rock landed. For this reason, Madar saw him lying beside the rock in the underground passage.

Basically, none of this was Obito's doing. It just happened miraculously.

Edited September 19, 2012 by saminyt

[Leviathan]

No doubt the way kishi is making the story is solving the problems.....the only thing is we didn't want to see them getting fixed like that. It just seems cheesy. For example Madara gave his real eyes to Nagato and became blind. Kishi doesn't say why Madara gave up his eyes to a child. Kishi also doesn't say how a blind madara got another eye from an Uchiha and the biggest thing which hit me is....Madara somehow got ONE eye....why one....how come he couldn't have the right one. So kishi, its nice of you to know the mistakes you made and you working to solve them but please, please do a better job than this.

[saminyt]

No doubt the way kishi is making the story is solving the problems.....the only thing is we didn't want to see them getting fixed like that. It just seems cheesy. For example Madara gave his real eyes to Nagato and became blind. Kishi doesn't say why Madara gave up his eyes to a child. Kishi also doesn't say how a blind madara got another eye from an Uchiha and the biggest thing which hit me is....Madara somehow got ONE eye....why one....how come he couldn't have the right one. So kishi, its nice of you to know the mistakes you made and you working to solve them but please, please do a better job than this.

Cmon man, let the man explain. After that, we can find all the faults we want. Its quite clear that at the moment he is just changing the variables just to make the equation balanced. So we r gonna see a lot more idiocy like this.

[Bardon]

No doubt the way kishi is making the story is solving the problems.....the only thing is we didn't want to see them getting fixed like that. It just seems cheesy. For example Madara gave his real eyes to Nagato and became blind. Kishi doesn't say why Madara gave up his eyes to a child. Kishi also doesn't say how a blind madara got another eye from an Uchiha and the biggest thing which hit me is....Madara somehow got ONE eye....why one....how come he couldn't have the right one. So kishi, its nice of you to know the mistakes you made and you working to solve them but please, please do a better job than this.

We already know why he gave up his eyes to nagato, he simply wanted to be revived to his original self by another person. And how do you know he found his new eyes AFTER getting blind? What if he already found some spares before doing so? Also there's a bit of mistranslation going on between mangastream and mangareader, the former is saying madara has other eyes while the latter is saying he has only one.

Anyway do take note that this is just obito's flashback, madara's background is a completely different story and a flashback within a flashback would just be too silly imo. Besides that, doesn't seem like madara's doing much brainwashing here. I mean just look at the guy, he's literally an old relic! o.O

He's being quite blunt with his words and he said it twice in a row that obito will have to pay back the debt of saving him. From what it appears, I think he's being rather desperate for it than suggesting he was pre-scheming to find an uchiha to work with. His current condition shows he's nowhere near strong enough to force someone into working for him. Again this is hinting that it was all pure chance he found obito. After all, why couldn't he have found someone sooner? Back when he was at least capable of moving around and not bound by the roots of a senju tree? My guess is that he didn't think that far ahead, that his main concern was to simply get back his prime self after being defeated by hashirama.

Speaking of his prime, does anyone else realize how impossible it is to defeat him now in his edo tensei state? He's got an immortal body, unlimited chakra and is on par with the strongest ninja of all time! Either someone like orochimaru needs to pull a dirty move or hashirama should make an appearance. It wouldn't be really farfetched to say that after getting his body abused throughout the years, he finally has the chance for payback.