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Posts posted by Leviathan
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Here's the link to the naruto manga chapter 603: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/603
So the last couple of chapters have been totally about obito....how he survived and how he knows madara. Today's chapter seemed more like a prologue than anything....you know we are getting clues on Obito becoming Tobi, basically on the outside, in this chapter. Guess we need to wait a couple of more weeks to completely understand how Obito came to be Tobi.
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What do you mean, made things explode? You've got to be more precise than that.
If you mean the exploding seal tags, that's because they're completely different to guns. Guns need ammunition, gunpowder, saltpetre etc (dunno if I got all that right, I'v never held a real gun in my life). The ninja in Naruto wrap a piece of paper around a kunai or place it on something, write a seal on it, infuse it with chakra and then later detonate it (The Third Hokage did this when he sneakily placed seal tags on the First and Second Hokage). The method used to get an explosion is completely different to what we here in the real world have done. There is no logical chain of advancement in technology. No-one would look at an exploding seal tag and say "Hey, I know how I can make this better! I'm gonna make a weapon made of metal, stuff some special powder down a barrel and light a match!".
But you have to agree, the shinobis use transmitters to contact with one another over long distances, has an advanced medical sector (maybe too advanced, after all a 12 year old girl carrying out a successful eye transplantation with limited space and equipment within a short time is just
), etc. So not having something similar to a gun is also a bit awkward. Kishi could've shown something like a paper bomb canon, you know something that shoots lots of paper bombs over a wide distance at the same time. Not saying that it would make the show better or anything.....-
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Ow.......SUPER CUTE. Congrats again....and keep those pics coming.
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Speaking of his prime, does anyone else realize how impossible it is to defeat him now in his edo tensei state? He's got an immortal body, unlimited chakra and is on par with the strongest ninja of all time! Either someone like orochimaru needs to pull a dirty move or hashirama should make an appearance. It wouldn't be really farfetched to say that after getting his body abused throughout the years, he finally has the chance for payback.
And about Madara's prime, yes he seems unbeatable at the moment. And Sasuke and Orochimaru's appearance is crucial at this point. But I dont think that Hashirama is gonna make an appearance(though his powers might be used to defeat Madara at the end). So its only a matter of time till the final battle begins.
To tell u the truth i don't think even hashirama making an appearence will stop madara. You will know what i mean if you had seen the "never before seen" footage about Hashirama vs Madara in the new Naruto ps3 game. Madara in my opinion took it easy on hashirama....the guy didn't even use one single mangekyo jutsu. The only reason hashirama won was because he had the wood jutsus capable enough to suppress a bijuu. But in the present condition the situation is completely different. Madara has the rinnegan and wood jutsu something he didn't have when he fought hashirama. The rinnegan in itself will make a huge difference here. So the conclusion is simple.....not even hashirama will stand a chance against madara in his present condition.
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No doubt the way kishi is making the story is solving the problems.....the only thing is we didn't want to see them getting fixed like that. It just seems cheesy. For example Madara gave his real eyes to Nagato and became blind. Kishi doesn't say why Madara gave up his eyes to a child. Kishi also doesn't say how a blind madara got another eye from an Uchiha and the biggest thing which hit me is....Madara somehow got ONE eye....why one....how come he couldn't have the right one. So kishi, its nice of you to know the mistakes you made and you working to solve them but please, please do a better job than this.
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Going to talk about the mangekyo awakening part here. I don't think you need to witness a dear one's death or kill a dear one to awake the mangekyo sharingan. After a lot of thought i came to the decision that extreme pain in your heart is enough for the purpose. Infact i don't think you really need pain, i think pain just acts like a catalyst. Madara and Izuna awakened their mangekyo sharingan, to think that guys like those felt pain due to some reason is.....i don't know.....weird. Also, the third data book gives hints to the fact that kamui, a mangekyo ability was achieved through sheer training and needed no pain, though this is unconfirmed.
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Here's the link to the naruto manga chapter 601: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/601
A few things happening in this chapter here. First of all it seems madara successfully defeated the 5 kages and is now going for the tailed beasts. But the most interesting thing happened in the last page. It seems madara himself saved obito, but maybe just not the way we have imagined up until now. Guess we will just have to wait and see what kishi does now.
http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/601/12
Read what Madara says on the bottom of the page. He says Obito revived him.
Uhhh....Madara? It was Kabuto who revived you! You yourself know this, because upon being rezzed, Kabuto told you via the rezzed Second Tsuchikage. Tobi had nothing to do with your being rezzed!
Come on Rikuo, you noticed that but not this : http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/560/2
And Rikuo, surely you don't consider this to be a plot hole or something like that. Obito is the captain of this operation and nagato (and akatsuki) was nothing more than his lackeys. If you think carefully everything up until now happened according to obito's will, madara's revival being nothing more than that. If obito hadn't wanted then, madara would never be revived. Madara himself knows this. It was the plan that Nagato would be the one to revive Madara on command of Obito, but Madara rises from the grave to find that Kabuto is the one who summoned him, which was not the plan. So, Madara asks Obito if it was his will to revive him like this and not according to the way planned. There is nothing wrong with what Madara said here.
Uhh...what are you talking about? In 601, when he says "Is this why you revived me like this?"...that happens after 560. In 560, he assumed Nagato had revived him, but Kabuto says no, he did. So from then on, Madara knows who was the one who revived him. So to then say later on to a guy who he knows didn't revive him, "Why you did revive me like this?"....is just nonsensical.
Um.....you see Rikuo you are wrong in both cases. Madara did know that it wasn't nagato who revived him even before kabuto introduced himself. Check out the link i provided again, madara asks "who is using this edo tensei" meaning he already knows it isn't nagato. And why wouldn' he know. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/559/2
Kabuto through the edo tensei confirms that it isn't nagato who summoned him.
A village church is destroyed by an army, a church which was not supposed to be destroyed. Who do the president call for explanation? The driver of the tank which blew up the church, or the captain of the squad? Of course the captain of the squad. Obito is the captain here, all decisions are made through his will. So of course madara can ask for an explanation seeing that he wasn't revived according to plan. There is nothing nonsensical here.
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Levi ain't socially normal
Levi will still give idl advice
Levi says call gurl as soon as possible
Levi says not to be surprised if gurl already has a boyfriend
Levi asks idl to keep friendship alive with gurl
Levi wishes good luck to idl
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Here's the link to the naruto manga chapter 601: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/601
A few things happening in this chapter here. First of all it seems madara successfully defeated the 5 kages and is now going for the tailed beasts. But the most interesting thing happened in the last page. It seems madara himself saved obito, but maybe just not the way we have imagined up until now. Guess we will just have to wait and see what kishi does now.
http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/601/12
Read what Madara says on the bottom of the page. He says Obito revived him.
Uhhh....Madara? It was Kabuto who revived you! You yourself know this, because upon being rezzed, Kabuto told you via the rezzed Second Tsuchikage. Tobi had nothing to do with your being rezzed!
Come on Rikuo, you noticed that but not this : http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/560/2
And Rikuo, surely you don't consider this to be a plot hole or something like that. Obito is the captain of this operation and nagato (and akatsuki) was nothing more than his lackeys. If you think carefully everything up until now happened according to obito's will, madara's revival being nothing more than that. If obito hadn't wanted then, madara would never be revived. Madara himself knows this. It was the plan that Nagato would be the one to revive Madara on command of Obito, but Madara rises from the grave to find that Kabuto is the one who summoned him, which was not the plan. So, Madara asks Obito if it was his will to revive him like this and not according to the way planned. There is nothing wrong with what Madara said here.
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Here's the link to the naruto manga chapter 601: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/601
A few things happening in this chapter here. First of all it seems madara successfully defeated the 5 kages and is now going for the tailed beasts. But the most interesting thing happened in the last page. It seems madara himself saved obito, but maybe just not the way we have imagined up until now. Guess we will just have to wait and see what kishi does now.
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EDIT:
Oh sure, there is nothing wrong with his motive. There is nothing wrong with the fact that obito wants to enslave the world and gain ultimate powers just because his crush died. Say what you want my friend, but that is absolutely ridiculous.
Of course there is something wrong with his motive. He is a psycho. What I am saying is that, his motive cannot be regarded as a plot hole. Lelouch and Light had somewhat crazy motives too and that didn't count as plot holes. In Anime, everyone has a crazy self within them and it doesn't take much to activate it. After that, there is no telling what he might do.
Now lets forget about motives. It wasn't my intention to hit on what Black Dahlia believes. I just showed him that even without counting motives and other small details, Obito still doesn't fit Tobi.
Oh, it seems that we have a misunderstanding, i never counted obito's motive to be a plot hole, just complete BS, that's all. Before revealing obito's motive we would joke around saying "maybe it's because his girlfriend died" and imagine the shock when you see that joke come true. We can't actually call it a plot hole as it really doesn't create holes in the plot, it just ruins it up.
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Oh, all these theories on here D:
I love all the people saying "If it isn't explained in the next chapter, I'm dropping the series." .. Because one chapter will fill in all the plot holes, right? One chapter? Okay.
I like the idea of Obito being Tobi, simply because it was fairly obvious that if Obito became a villain, it had to be because of Rin, who is a character I've been curious about. Maybe now we get to know what happened to her. People say it's not a good enough reason, but in the same sense, Sasuke is such a fag with a crappy motive... Also, why do people keep saying "Why would Obito want to destroy the world?"? He doesn't want to destroy the world.
What we are trying to say is Rin's death is not enough to turn obito to who he is now. It's like the time when Kubo spoke about Aizen's actions. Kubo said that Aizen became a villain because he was lonely or something, which is completely ridiculous. If Obito got angry because of Rin's death it would be logical to take revenge on the kakashi, not on the world. And Obito doesn't want to destroy the world? Are you kidding? The guy attacked Konoha with the Kyubi, was the mastermind behind the uchiha clan massacre, declared war on all the shinobi nations and wants to enslave everyone. If that is not equivalent to destroying the world, i don't know what is.
I've been noticing that a lot of Naruto fans who discuss all these theories about how Obito could not possibly be Tobi always add in information that has not been said or even hinted at. It's like they think they know any and all possible scenarios, but they're really just setting themselves up for failure and disappointment. They're so caught up that it can't be Obito, so they dismiss anything that is actually happening in the manga lolIf people actually spent time making theories about how Obito could be Tobi (rather than trying to disprove it), I'm sure people wouldn't be raging like they are now. But no, who wants that ^.^
I agree that sometimes fans adds wrong infos, now i don't know about other places but in this forum guys like Rikuo and Koby always take care of these things. So i don't see what you are harping about. And about trying to prove Obito=Tobi, you think we haven't tried it yet? Why do you think that the guys here are never accepts it? Because we tried and failed. Age problems, no good motive, etc always stood in the way and finally we said that it can't be Obito. And personally i think that if you can't come up with a theory, you shouldn't comment on one. So unless you can show Tobi=Obito, don't comment on guys who has shown Tobi not equal to Obito. You say that people are so much caught in "tobi can't be obito" disregard the happenings in the manga. I will tell you what happened in the manga, in the manga a fully grown Tobi attacked konoha and fought minato toe to toe only after a few months of the questionable death of preteen obito.
I personally don't look into the theories like some others, but one thing I do know is that Tobi is a liar, so not everything we think we know has to be true. This alone could fill in some plot holes. Although, I'm sure if that did happen, people wouldn't like it, even though it would fit perfectly with Tobi's personality.For now, I'll just keep enjoying the manga. Ya'lls can keep theorizing and raging ^.^
So Tobi is a liar, what does that prove? Nothing. If tobi is a liar then which part of his sayings are we supposed to take as the truth? I know, we will take the parts which haven't been proved wrong as truth, oh wait we already did and the result.....Tobi can't be obito. I will not go on with this point seeing that Saminyt really took care of it.
U r absolutely right about this part as well. Obito's motive is nothing ridiculous. It's not that he cares about Rin so much as to cause all this. After Rin's death, he realizes what the ninja world has become and he finds his own way to solve it.Oh sure, there is nothing wrong with his motive. There is nothing wrong with the fact that obito wants to enslave the world and gain ultimate powers just because his crush died. Say what you want my friend, but that is absolutely ridiculous.
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Here's the link to naruto manga chapter 600: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/600
Ok, we have all been eagerly waiting for this chapter, to see what kishi has to say for himself. And frankly i am not impressed. The reason why obito became tobi is because Kakashi let RIn die. Well that's hard to swallow, because that only covers motive (and not a good one either). So, if this obito is the actual obito and not someone from the another dimension then a lot questions remain unanswered and many plot holes are created, like the age and size problem when tobi fought minato. Ok, on the brighter side it seems the action just got more interesting here. It seems Madara himself has arrived here to take on Naruto and the gang....but that leaves one question: what happened to the kages?
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I'm Dog Wood with Metal affinity and my trigram symbol is Fire. So is that good? Or bad?
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1. So you are saying that Madara created Zetsu as 2nd Madara and then Zetsu fused with Obito to become Tobi or 3rd Madara. Now if you are right then that would mean that 1st Madara never planned for 3rd madara, seeing he already had nagato with rinnegan to revive him. Then why in the world would zetsu fuse with obito in the first place. And don't say zetsu knew of obito's sharingan's ability coz that would be really absurd.
2. Are you out of your mind?? Cells never behave like that. Once zetsu would fuse with obito, hashirama's cell's would start dividing at a crazy rate thus healing obito. But would that result in the disappearance of hashirama's cells? Ofcourse not. This is basic biology for god's sake. Even the part of zetsu which would not have fused with obito would have hashirama's cells.
3. So you are saying, that because madara's cells are inside obito, obito lost his independence both physically and mentally and obito has the same memories as madara. I don't know, Danzo had hashirama's cells but he didn't have hashirama's memories, nor did he look like he was under someone else's control. The only reason i might accept this point is because an anomaly, zetsu, is present here.
4. Possible considering madara created zetsu, but contradicting the basis of your theory: Zetsu fused with Obito. If zetsu was to give nagato the rinnegan then why did he fuse with obito
5. Problem solved
6. There's some problems here. First of all, may i remind you that Tobi can only stay inside his dimension for 5 min at a length. Also the space time technique granted by his mangekyo gives him two powers:
a. Intangibility (goes in the other dimension or send things there)
b. Teleportation (moves through the dimension at an alarming speed)
Now the expanding time part can only be true for the teleportation part. Because if he could expand time in his "intangibility" part he would have been able to escape konan's paper bombs. You are trying to explain tobi's aging and size in one year gap with the "entering kamui dimension" scenario. Unfortunately, kishi has already said that tobi can stay at his dimension for maximum 5 min at a length.
7. Now, this is something i forgot to mention in my first post, so i will be doing it now. Remember when kisame was recruited for akatsuki, tobi showed him his face. Kisame knew immediately who he was dealing with. But now that the face behind the mask have been revealed to belong to obito, that would mean it was the original madara who confronted kisame. But that would be completely wrong coz
a. Akatsuki was created a lot later, according to your theory by Tobi or 3rd Madara
b. Madara Uchiha himself would never have created akatsuki, he had no reason whatsoever.
1. I already answered this part. Zetsu was given orders to find a suitable uchiha for Madara's remnant. But why he chose Obito can never be explained.
2. Animes do not always follow biology u know. Okay, lets go with your reasoning shall we. U r saying once Hashirama's cells enter a body, the cells can be extracted at any time. So white zetsu was created by Hasirama's cells. So in that logic, Tobi already had his hands on the cells. So why did he need to get the cells from Yamato.
3. Nope, it's not because of the cells. It's like this, Obito was dead/near death to begin with. Madara's remnant went inside and took over his body. U can compare it with Orochimaru's body takeover.
4. Nagato was given the rinnegan to gather the bijuus chakra in the Gedo Mazo, but Madara's remnant still needed an Uchiha body to complete the Moon's eye plan. And again I'm saying, no one but kishis knows why the hell Obito was chosen.
5.
6. The first power u mentioned is of his normal sharingan. His mangekyou powers haven't been shown yet. When Tobi teleports from one place to another, no one can actually see whether he uses mangekyou or normal sharingan.
And if my speculation is correct, the super fast teleportation can be activated with his mangekyou which is infact slowing down time inside the Kamui world. And the time difference on the outside world would be only five minutes.
7. You should have added this point from the beginning so that I wouldn't have had to brainstorm so much. It's official now, this plot hole can't be removed by any logic. Say Madara did appear before Kisame, so why did he have to wear a mask with one hole. He doesn't have a transplanted eye like Obito.
Anyways, so much for my trying to save Naruto some humiliation. I guess I will kick Naruto out of my favorite list now.
1. Um...Ok, that should make sense. But yeah, picking obito was lame.
2. Are you asking me? Coz i can explain this part, i was just seeing if you could. Infact if i remember correctly i did once explain it to you.
3.Ok, that's a theory. But my theory on remnant madara taking over obito's body with the Fushigi Tensei was better. Shame it didn't work out. Damn you kishi.
4. This part of the theory is in my sense perfect except ofcourse picking obito.
5. ........
6. You should know me by now Saminyt. When i am speculating i always say i am speculating and in this case i am not speculating. Check it out here: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tobi
That space time jutsu is tobi's mangekyo ability.
7. Sorry, i forgot. (Man, all it took was one point to disapprove the theory completely, didn't it?)
Oh, i gave up saving naruto the moment i read the last page of the latest chapter. And what?? You didn't kick it out yet? I am surprised, but what can i say, you were an hardcore fan after all.
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Well this is a possible theory, but it has too many plot holes for my taste. Sorry man i already considered something like this when i was giving my theory and it was a failure. I am going to point out the limitations here.
1. Manga chapter 560, pg 2 : http://www.mangaread...et/naruto/560/2
From the conversation we can easily say that Madara is NOT talking about Zetsu but Tobi. You can see Kabuto say "i am "his" supporter". Now Kabuto rarely had any interaction with Zetsu, he mainly talked and planned with Tobi, thus making it clear that Madara is also talking about Tobi.
2. Neither Tobi nor Zetsu has Hashirama's cells. Proof? If even one of them had Hashirama's cells, then they wouldn't have had to capture Yamato to make the white zetsu army stronger.
3. Even if Obito had got Madara's memories, why would he want to become Tobi? There have been clear examples where we can see that Obito was very much aware of his own memories. What was in Madara's memories which tempted him to become Tobi? Madara lived in an era of war and chaos and it was war which took obito's life, is that what made him like this? Pretty weak but still a possibility. Ok, let's say something was there which made obito think of creating a new world, since he is aware of his own memories and actions the logical decision would be to go back to konoha, show off his new power to the hokage and ask him to give him a top spot from where he can act towards his goal in a positive way. (Ok, i seriously stole it from code geass). I know this explains a lot, but Obito couldn't have become Tobi while he had his own memories intact.
4. In your theory you have completely ignored this data : http://www.mangaread...et/naruto/559/2
You can see that Madara was expecting Nagato to be the one to revive him and not zetsu. Now how can it be unless he gave nagato the rinnegan or he found out nagato with rinnegan, whichever it is, after finding nagato it would be top priority to protect and support nagato. Let's say zetsu was created for this purpose, then following your theory, the question arises: why did zetsu fuse with obito.
5. Another point you have ignored is the fact that Tobi had a sharingan in his left eye too. Well it can be easily explained, so this ain't much of a plot hole.
6. You are saying Obito/Tobi went into the Kamui dimension and trained there for a long period of time. There is only one problem here. Kamui doesnot control time. Can you show me one example where Tobi manipulated time with it? The Kamui dimension is basically a huge empty storage ground. According to you time flows faster in the Kamui dimension, but if that is true then Sasuke, Karin, and Danzo' bodygaurds would be dead by the time they entered and exited the dimension. Here's a rough calculation.
Sasuke and Karin were sucked into the Kamui dimension in the 5 kage summit. Now let's say they were in there for 1 hour. Now here comes the maths.
Let's say the time between Obito being crushed and Kyubi attack is 1 year. And let's say Tobi/Obito was 32 years old when he fought Minato. So from that sense we can say that
1 year in real world = 20 in Kamui dimension
12 months= 20 x 12 months in KD
1 month = 20 months in KD
30 days = 20 x 30 days in KD
1 day = 20 days in KD
24 hours = 20 x 24 hours in KD
1 hour = 20 hours in KD
Are you seriously suggesting that Sasuke and Karin was stuck in goddamn dimension for almost 20 hours without food and water and came out alive? May i remind you that Sasuke was really beaten up at that time and would need more than chakra to keep him alive. Ok, let's say they did survive 20 hours in that dimension, the first they would say after coming out would be "WHERE THE HELL DID YOU SEND US, WE HAVE BEEN STUCK THERE FOR A DAY AND NOW WE ARE STARVING". Ok, let's even say Sasuke and Karin weren't feeling hungry, it still doesn't explain how Danzo' bodyguards survived in that dimension for such a long period of time.
What u wrote here are all facts. Thanks for your comment on the topic. But I was thinking about it a little differently. Here, let me show u:
1. Madara is thinking about Zetsu but not the one we know now. The Zetsu containing Madara's memories and the current Tobi are the same inside. So when I said Zetsu, I was actually talking about Madara's remnant which was inside Zetsu and later transferred into Obito's body.
2. The reason for not having the cells might be because Zetsu used them to revive Obito's body.
3. That's the whole point. Obito has no say in this. Madara's remnant has full control over Obito's mind and body. So he also has all of Obito's memories. Everything is being done by Madara's remnant, not Obito.
4. Yes, this is something I totally forgot. My timing of the events are wrong here. In order to create Zetsu, Madara needs the rinnegan. But if he created Zetsu after meeting Nagato then he wouldn't have the rinnegan anymore.
Okay, I will change something here>
Madara before dying creates Zetsu and implants his memories. Then Zetsu takes his rinnegan eyes and gives them to Nagato as a baby/child. Zetsu (Madara's remnant inside) inspires Yahiko to create the Akatsuki. This can explain why Tobi told Konan that he was the one behind the creation of the Akatsuki (He was pointing at his inside self, not the outside)
And why fuse with Obito: I can't answer that, nobody can. But Obito has already been revealed so our hands are tied. I can say a good reason why Zetsu would want to fuse with another Uchiha: To preserve Madara's remnant in a strong Uchiha with strong ocular powers to complete his Moon's eye plan. But why pick Obito, I can't answer that.
5. The left eye is obviously taken from another Uchiha since it can't be turned off and Obito's left eye is with Kakashi.
6. That's the thing. I'm not saying time flows differently there, I'm saying Tobi can control the time flow. And this is a complete speculation on my part so of course there won't be an example. But if Kishi were to introduce this fact now, no one could oppose him. Just think about it. We saw Tobi use space time technique similar to Kamui with just his normal sharingan and he also told that Kakashi's Kamui was nothing like the real one. So, what exactly is Tobi's mangekyou power?
I am proposing it has the power to control the time flow in the other dimension. That's how he travels huge distances in a matter of seconds. He goes to the other dimension using his normal sharingan, activates Kamui to extend the time there, heads off to his desired location and creates havoc.
And don't say that by doing so, he will eventually grow old. Coz travelling in that manner for his whole life could cost at max 5-10 years which doesn't make that much of a difference.
Well, that's all I have to say. And I request u to find the flaws in this one as well. And feel free to share any improvements to this theory.
1. So you are saying that Madara created Zetsu as 2nd Madara and then Zetsu fused with Obito to become Tobi or 3rd Madara. Now if you are right then that would mean that 1st Madara never planned for 3rd madara, seeing he already had nagato with rinnegan to revive him. Then why in the world would zetsu fuse with obito in the first place. And don't say zetsu knew of obito's sharingan's ability coz that would be really absurd.
2. Are you out of your mind?? Cells never behave like that. Once zetsu would fuse with obito, hashirama's cell's would start dividing at a crazy rate thus healing obito. But would that result in the disappearance of hashirama's cells? Ofcourse not. This is basic biology for god's sake. Even the part of zetsu which would not have fused with obito would have hashirama's cells.
3. So you are saying, that because madara's cells are inside obito, obito lost his independence both physically and mentally and obito has the same memories as madara. I don't know, Danzo had hashirama's cells but he didn't have hashirama's memories, nor did he look like he was under someone else's control. The only reason i might accept this point is because an anomaly, zetsu, is present here.
4. Possible considering madara created zetsu, but contradicting the basis of your theory: Zetsu fused with Obito. If zetsu was to give nagato the rinnegan then why did he fuse with obito
5. Problem solved
6. There's some problems here. First of all, may i remind you that Tobi can only stay inside his dimension for 5 min at a length. Also the space time technique granted by his mangekyo gives him two powers:
a. Intangibility (goes in the other dimension or send things there)
b. Teleportation (moves through the dimension at an alarming speed)
Now the expanding time part can only be true for the teleportation part. Because if he could expand time in his "intangibility" part he would have been able to escape konan's paper bombs. You are trying to explain tobi's aging and size in one year gap with the "entering kamui dimension" scenario. Unfortunately, kishi has already said that tobi can stay at his dimension for maximum 5 min at a length.
7. Now, this is something i forgot to mention in my first post, so i will be doing it now. Remember when kisame was recruited for akatsuki, tobi showed him his face. Kisame knew immediately who he was dealing with. But now that the face behind the mask have been revealed to belong to obito, that would mean it was the original madara who confronted kisame. But that would be completely wrong coz
a. Akatsuki was created a lot later, according to your theory by Tobi or 3rd Madara
b. Madara Uchiha himself would never have created akatsuki, he had no reason whatsoever.
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Since we've come up with countless theories in the past, why not a last one. I still believe that Tobi is a remnant of Madara inside Obito's body (Leviathan's theory) . But this still leaves some plot holes. So i am posting my own version of it in brief:
1. After being defeated by Hashirama, Madara fled with Hashirama's cells and on a later time acquired the rinnegan.
2. Rinnegan + Hashirama's cells = Inhuman abilities (one of these abilities must have been super long life span since he met Nagato in the past)
3. So when Tobi told Konan that he was the one who influenced Nagato to form the Akatsuki, it wasn't the current Tobi but was Madara (let's call him the first Tobi). Trust me, it will add up in the end.
4. But soon after these events, Madara's life starts to fade. With his creation of all things, Madara creates the zetsu. Now after Madara dies, Zetsu (now carrying Madara's memory) acts as the second tobi who is ordered by Madara to revive him when the time comes.
See Manga chapter 560, page 2
Here Madara is referring to Zetsu, his creation. He was going to be revived in a different way, but Kabuto came into the middle.
5. Now lets go to the Obito incident. Team Minato are on their mission to end the war. But Zetsu is also there. And the reason why Minato could not sense him might be duo to Zetsu's ability to become one with the earth. Now Obito is crushed in a ton of boulders. Now many people are saying that being able to restore Obito's body is a plot hole. But I do not consider this one. Zetsu has Hashirama's cells and we know what kind of medical miracles it can perform. So Zetsu fuses a part of himself with Obito's crushed part. And I'm guessing since his other eye wasn't destroyed for a long period of time, the cells were strong enough to restore it.
Now the main plot hole here is why choose Obito. But since it's already revealed to be Obito, we have no say in this. So I will leave it to Kishi to tell us a believable reason for choosing Obito's body(And there must have been a good reason for it. My next point will explain a little bit more on this).
6. Upon fusing with Obito, Zetsu transfers Madara's memories into Obito's mind thus creating the final Tobi that we all know. Now this is where it gets really messy. There is maximum 9 months interval between this events and the events of Tobi's fight with Minato (where he is a grown up)
Now any theories explaining this will be a speculation. But still, the one I am thinking right now is pretty believable.
Tobi is able to control the time flow of the other dimension as well. It is the true power of the Kamui. Now let's go with that. Obito's body now has Madara's memory upto the time he died. This practically makes him Madara. But still, Obito is nothing special other than the fact that his sharingan has one of the most unique and useful power. Now, Zetsu must have known that somehow. For this reason, Obito was chosen. Now, Madara's remnant has Obito's eyes but his body is nowehre strong enough to accomplish Madara's plans. Just Madara's remnant inside Obito was enough to unlock the Kamui's true power. So Tobi goes into the other dimension, trains there for years in a different time frame (I pretty much stole it from DBZ) and when his body finally becomes strong enough he comes out. In this way, even in 9 months, Tobi from a 12 year old boy becomes a middle aged man.
7. The rest is pretty easy to grasp so I won't bother explaining more.
Well, I did speculate this entire event but this looks like a believable scenario to me.
Well this is a possible theory, but it has too many plot holes for my taste. Sorry man i already considered something like this when i was giving my theory and it was a failure. I am going to point out the limitations here.
1. Manga chapter 560, pg 2 : http://www.mangaread...et/naruto/560/2
From the conversation we can easily say that Madara is NOT talking about Zetsu but Tobi. You can see Kabuto say "i am "his" supporter". Now Kabuto rarely had any interaction with Zetsu, he mainly talked and planned with Tobi, thus making it clear that Madara is also talking about Tobi.
2. Neither Tobi nor Zetsu has Hashirama's cells. Proof? If even one of them had Hashirama's cells, then they wouldn't have had to capture Yamato to make the white zetsu army stronger.
3. Even if Obito had got Madara's memories, why would he want to become Tobi? There have been clear examples where we can see that Obito was very much aware of his own memories. What was in Madara's memories which tempted him to become Tobi? Madara lived in an era of war and chaos and it was war which took obito's life, is that what made him like this? Pretty weak but still a possibility. Ok, let's say something was there which made obito think of creating a new world, since he is aware of his own memories and actions the logical decision would be to go back to konoha, show off his new power to the hokage and ask him to give him a top spot from where he can act towards his goal in a positive way. (Ok, i seriously stole it from code geass). I know this explains a lot, but Obito couldn't have become Tobi while he had his own memories intact.
4. In your theory you have completely ignored this data : http://www.mangaread...et/naruto/559/2
You can see that Madara was expecting Nagato to be the one to revive him and not zetsu. Now how can it be unless he gave nagato the rinnegan or he found out nagato with rinnegan, whichever it is, after finding nagato it would be top priority to protect and support nagato. Let's say zetsu was created for this purpose, then following your theory, the question arises: why did zetsu fuse with obito.
5. Another point you have ignored is the fact that Tobi had a sharingan in his left eye too. Well it can be easily explained, so this ain't much of a plot hole.
6. You are saying Obito/Tobi went into the Kamui dimension and trained there for a long period of time. There is only one problem here. Kamui doesnot control time. Can you show me one example where Tobi manipulated time with it? The Kamui dimension is basically a huge empty storage ground. According to you time flows faster in the Kamui dimension, but if that is true then Sasuke, Karin, and Danzo' bodygaurds would be dead by the time they entered and exited the dimension. Here's a rough calculation.
Sasuke and Karin were sucked into the Kamui dimension in the 5 kage summit. Now let's say they were in there for 1 hour. Now here comes the maths.
Let's say the time between Obito being crushed and Kyubi attack is 1 year. And let's say Tobi/Obito was 32 years old when he fought Minato. So from that sense we can say that
1 year in real world = 20 in Kamui dimension
12 months= 20 x 12 months in KD
1 month = 20 months in KD
30 days = 20 x 30 days in KD
1 day = 20 days in KD
24 hours = 20 x 24 hours in KD
1 hour = 20 hours in KD
Are you seriously suggesting that Sasuke and Karin was stuck in goddamn dimension for almost 20 hours without food and water and came out alive? May i remind you that Sasuke was really beaten up at that time and would need more than chakra to keep him alive. Ok, let's say they did survive 20 hours in that dimension, the first they would say after coming out would be "WHERE THE HELL DID YOU SEND US, WE HAVE BEEN STUCK THERE FOR A DAY AND NOW WE ARE STARVING". Ok, let's even say Sasuke and Karin weren't feeling hungry, it still doesn't explain how Danzo' bodyguards survived in that dimension for such a long period of time.
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OK let's consider what you are saying: Kishi can explain Tobi really being Obito.
I am going to show you why Kishi can't do it. Obito was shown to die being crushed under a huge boulder. His right side was completely under the boulder and you don't need to be einstein to realize the condition of his bones and organs under such mass. Not only that, more rocks fell over his body and literally buried him. Now, let's say by some miraculous feat Obito survived. Why would he become the villain he is now? Why would he want to destroy the leaf, take over the world? Because he lost his crush Rin to Kakashi? I doubt it, not only me, i believe every person in the forum would consider it to be really shitty. So no matter from which angle you see, a gentle and fun guy like Obito never had any reason to become Tobi. Ok, let's even consider for some goddamm reason Obito became Tobi, then i would like kishi (and probably you too, seeing you really liked Tobi=Obito) to explain these things.
1. Tobi attacked the leaf with the Kyubi and fought Minato 12 years prior to the beginning of the series. Now considering Minato got Kushina pregnant after the battle of the Kanabi bridge, there can at max be a time period of nine months between the Kyubi attack and Obito being crushed under the rock. How in the world did Obito, a twelve year old boy (have i got the age right) become Tobi, a man probably in his mid thirties just in 9 months?
2. Madara when revived showed signs that he knew of Tobi's existence and work. Now Madara could only have done that if and only if he was around the time when the third shinobi world war took place. Now the war took place about 50 years (again have i got this right) after Madara's disappearance. How could he have lived for so long? And even if he did why would he work with a child?
3. Tobi was shown to be present during the time when Kisame was recruited for Akatsuki. Again aging and size problems comes here showing that Tobi couldn't have been Obito.
I can go on and on with plot holes which Kishi can't explain without pulling an "Obito of alternate dimension" scenario but i will stop here. But if Kishi does pull this scenario, i ask you, will naruto remain the same as it was? Is this what people wanted to see? I would like you to reconsider and really understand the impact of making a gentle preteen boy into a villainous criminal.
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Here's the link to naruto chapter 599: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/599
This is without a doubt the crappiest manga chapter in the history of the........manga industry. Kishimoto, i believe just lost half of his fans with this chapter. Yeah guys, you guessed it, Kishi has committed the ultimate taboo, he has pulled a TOBI=OBITO scenario. I really don't know what to say anymore, i will just check out the next chapter to see how kishi explains himself and if he can't pull anything less than an Obito of the other dimension (you know like edolas from fairytail) scenario then i am quitting naruto for good and removing it from my top 5 list (i would as well do it now, but oh well let's wait for the week)
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Now I have not seen as manya anime or played as many games as most people but off the top of my head I would have to say my favourite attack would be.... Goku's Spirit Bomb. Why? The sheer size of it and power it holds is wicked! It is an attack to be feared once powered up, I know I would not wanna be on the receiveing end of it.
The Spirit Bomb would be my favorite attack too... Just one question that came to mind... Cell said that he would be able to use it too... I thought only those pure of heart could use the attack???
This is nothing but another example of the plot holes of the DBZ universe.
All anime have pot holes, some are just bigger than others. Or maybe Cell would use a different variation of the spirit bomb that used different energy? Who knows.
I don't think all animes have plot holes. Animes like Fullmetal Alchemist/Brotherhood, Code Geass, Gurren Lagann (did i spell it right), Darker Than Black, etc doesn't have any plot holes. As for Cell using Spirit Bomb, you could be right, but it was never confirmed that there could be different variations of the spirit bomb. According to given data ,only the ones with pure heart can use it. We have seen Cell use Kamehameha which is exactly similar to Goku's, not only that, all of Cell's other attacks are exactly similar to the attack's of the original user, so we can safely assume that Cell can only use what is present in his cell or DNA and no variation. (well at least i assume that, haha)
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Now I have not seen as manya anime or played as many games as most people but off the top of my head I would have to say my favourite attack would be.... Goku's Spirit Bomb. Why? The sheer size of it and power it holds is wicked! It is an attack to be feared once powered up, I know I would not wanna be on the receiveing end of it.
The Spirit Bomb would be my favorite attack too... Just one question that came to mind... Cell said that he would be able to use it too... I thought only those pure of heart could use the attack???
This is nothing but another example of the plot holes of the DBZ universe.
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The images of the manga don't load for me at mangareader, and if I try to click "view image" it gives me a 403 forbidden error. It's as if I've been banned from seeing them.Here's the link to the naruto manga chapter 598: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/598
BREAKING NEWS GUYS, TOBI'S MASK IS NOW BROKEN. We might be able to see tobi's real face in the next chapter. Finally after all this time we are going to see who tobi really is. On the side note Tobi's mangekyo is revealed, and guess what the ability is, yup it's Kamui, same as kakashi's. But does that mean Kishi is going for a "tobi is obito" scenario.....I seriously hope not.

Why would that happen? It works fine for me. Anyway here's links to a few more site's, see if they work:
Manga fox: http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v62/c598/1.html
Animea: http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-598.html
Manga Panda: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/598
Here you go Chapter 598 Next week will be orochimaru in action. kishi will jump to that. Gai new name -super eyebrowHey Gedo, it seems the link you provided isn't exactly working the way it should be. Can you check it, if it works ok for you then it means that something is wrong with my server. And that prediction you made, is that just you or did you get the info from a site.
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Here's the link to the naruto manga chapter 598: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/598
BREAKING NEWS GUYS, TOBI'S MASK IS NOW BROKEN. We might be able to see tobi's real face in the next chapter. Finally after all this time we are going to see who tobi really is. On the side note Tobi's mangekyo is revealed, and guess what the ability is, yup it's Kamui, same as kakashi's. But does that mean Kishi is going for a "tobi is obito" scenario.....I seriously hope not.
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I have given some iq tests in my life but this one really proved to be quite wacky. Man, i have never given any tests based on patterns and sequence only. Anyway got 130. As for bending it into a forum game or i will leave the higher ups to that discussion.
Latest Naruto Manga Discussion [Spoiler]
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I don't see a reason why Rin couldn't have been a sleeper agent. Based on what we have seen up until now we can easily consider the possiblity of Rin being a spy. We have seen a young Kabuto act as a spy in multiple villages as a medic ninja. So why not Rin? Saying that Rin was too young to be a spy is not logical. Young ninjas who are experienced in their field are often sent to top class missions like its nothing. Kakashi, Rin and Obito were sent to take care of the battle of Kannabi bridge which was considered as a very important mission to for Konoha, Kabuto was sent as a spy to multiple villages. From this we can say that age doesn't matter to become a spy.
We can still explain the activation of mangekyo with your guilt theory. You don't actually have to kill someone to feel guilty of killing him. If you feel that you could've done more for the person and just may have saved that person from his death, it could still be classified as guilt. Shisui and Itachi were very close. So Itachi, upon Shisui's death, could've easily blamed himself for being so weak and helpless and not being able to help his friend thus giving birth to guilt. Sasuke could've considered himself guilty of Itachi's death seeing that he spent all the time thinking of revenge and not trying to understand his brother once.
But i still don't think you absolutely need to feel pain or guilt to activate the mangekyo. Madara and Izuna used to train from very young, they grew up to be an ideal soldier, they killed their comrades like it was nothing, so to think that these guys felt pain or guilt is a bit.....I still think that feelings like guilt and pain only act as a catalyst in the path to achieve the mangekyo and nothing more.