relak
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Posts posted by relak
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Well firstly.. I posted this topic and that post in 2008, but the post that I copied it from was originally posted back around 2001 probably. A lot has changed in the cartoon department since then, so a lot of the discussion about it has too.
Sure they have some cartoons that bend the line of cartoon.. as you mentioned.. "90s HBO SPAWN series, Wolverine and the X-men, much of DCAU series, Ben10, Avatar the Last Airbender etc." But the majority of cartoons are simply aimed at kids.. and the others that air on TV a lot that aren't aimed at kids.. are just stupid comedies like Family Guy, American Dad, Simpons, Futurama, etc.. where usually it revolves around some man who is very dumb and does stupid shit that gets turned into a comedy show.
I wouldn't classify Ben 10 as such. I believe it's aimed at little kids, also the X-men you speak of.. the cartoons I've seen were definitely aimed at kids. I've never seen SPAWN though.. and yes Avatar is actually one of the very few that comes very close to Anime in quality. It has an advancing plot, good art designs, and a good story. However it doesn't come close to being aimed at adults, again it's aimed at young teens or even younger.
That is the biggest difference. Anime is diverse for all ages. Cartoons are aimed at kids, besides a couple of them in which the majority of the ones that aren't are usually "dumb comedies". Cartoons simply aren't as diverse.. but that is also because the USA isn't as open to Animation as Japan. Do you know how many people tell me that Anime is a Cartoon.. and Cartoons are for kids and that I should grow up and stop watching Cartoons? That is simply the mentality of the country.. and thus the reason Animation is mostly aimed at kids.
Had you actually read the post.. it wasn't talking purely about everything.. but rather the majority of what is cartoon and anime. Which allows for a little more freedom of discussion on the matter.
Now I like Anime and Cartoons.. but to be honest, besides a some movies placed on DVD of Animation/Cartoons.. there hasn't actually been any Cartoon I've liked or watched in several years. The majority of my favorite cartoons are old classics like ReBoot, Johnny Quest, Tom and Jerry, and Looney Toons. While on the other hand.. every season of the year... I pick up to watch 5 to 7 series of Anime airing in Japan.. therefore there is just a lot more Anime that I like than Cartoons.
hence why i say that just calling american animation "cartoons aimed at kids with a few exceptions", those "exceptions" should be given a category of their own.
Its the same reason why i refuse to call WATCHMEN or V for Vendetta a "comic"(since "comic" indicates a genre of the comedic nature). At least in the comic industry you have "graphic novels" to differentiate those for kids and those "Exceptions".
Cartoons should have the same.
I believe the only difference is this
>>>variety.
While in japan, anime is accepted more like a medium.
Its a medium in which different genre(be it fantasy, scifi, slice of life etc) can be placed into.
In the western world, "animation" has been relegated into a genre of its own. I realise how in USA the DVDs are split into its various genre like sci/fi, horror, drama, and..........animation.
Such a practice is very limiting and constraining on the creative minds behind the animation shows.
Wheras in japan, the DVDs are split into "Live action" and "anime". Under each category then it is split into sub genre like sci/fi, horror, etc etc.
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Cartoon is a term that once referred to fine art during the renaissance period. Somehow, though, the term’s meaning evolved (or devolved, depending on how you look at it) into humorous and witty illustrations and, finally, into animated programs meant to entertain people, mostly children. For, clarity, the term ‘cartoon’ in this article shall be referring to the animated programs. Recently, however, a new term has been coined: Anime. And the distinction between these two has caused much confusion.
Strictly speaking though, there should be no distinction between anime and cartoon. Anime is a term used by the Japanese to refer to animated cartoons, from their own country and from others as well. Somehow, though, the world started using the term anime in reference to Japanese cartoons exclusively. Japanese animation was once called japanimation, but this term was aptly discarded when the term ‘Anime’ was put into use.
Some say that they see absolutely no difference between the two, even going so far as to classify both cartoons and anime as ‘childish’ because of the nature of how they are presented, much to the woe of anime fans. Technically, there’s no official difference and they are somewhat correct. But you only have to watch a single episode of any anime series and you’ll see that anime is far more than your usual slapstick comedy man-tripping-on-a-banana-peal early morning cartoons. There is a real and profound difference between the two besides their spellings: Anime is so much more than ‘just a cartoon’.
Storylines/Plots
Cartoons usually have a simple and defined plot. And they’re usually about the good guys fighting the bad guys. Cartoons rarely go beyond that old cliché. Most Anime series, on the other hand, are also about the same good vs. evil but the plots are rarely simple and rarely predictable. You’ll find an element of politics, religion, humanity, and a score of several other abstract concepts within an anime. Whereas cartoons are just about ‘evil’ cats chasing ‘innocent’ mice or a hero defending himself and others from a very evil bully. Anime can blur the lines between good and evil so much that you’ll be left wondering which side is really right. Look at the plot of Gundam, there aren’t any good guys or bad guys. They’re both fighting for a cause – a worthy one, and both sides are prepared to do good and evil to achieve their goals. Look at the Wave Country arc of Naruto which is now at Naruto Shippuden. Zabuza, evil as he was, had evoked more sympathetic tears than any of the typical Disney antagonists. There are, however, few exceptions to the ‘cartoons are simple’ rule. There are cartoon series that are far advanced like X-men.
In terms of humor, anime goes beyond the slapstick comedy that cartoons offer. There won’t be any corny joke about the chicken crossing the road with anime. There won’t even be the quintessential banana peal. Anime humor is deep and witty. However, it is to be noted that cartoons are mostly for kids. Anime can be for an adult audience; it mostly is, actually. There are even times when anime plots are hardly suited for children.
Characters
In cartoons, there’s a protagonist, an antagonist, and a damsel in distress. Their roles are well-defined and clear and the characters always act according to their roles. In anime, however, the damsel in distress may very well become the antagonist, leaving the protagonist in distress. There’s no knowing what to expect in anime. Anime characters, a lot of times, are developed overtime through trials and growth, while cartoon characters remain the same from when the show started. (Of course, there are exceptions such as Spiderman.) Since there’s an ongoing plot, Anime characters actually grow up and may even produce the next generation for the series. Anime fans tend to get into the characters a lot deeper because of the characters’ depth and charm. Consider Naruto; viewers see him growing up from an infant to a young powerful ninja, the way he relates to people, the way he learns new techniques, and the way he evolves visually. That is one of the chief reasons for popularities of anime over plain cartoons.
The problem is that anime is so diverse in genre that there are anime which fulfil all the criteria of a cartoon *eg: simple slapstick, protagonist/antagonist/damsel stereotypes, simply defined plot etc*
What do you call those then??
Then there are non-japanese animation that are still lumped under the category of "cartoon" despite having more in common with anime style of storytelling.
Examples include the 90s HBO SPAWN series, Wolverine and the X-men, much of DCAU series, Ben10, Avatar the Last Airbender etc.
Lets use Justice league or Avatar or BEn 10.
Both have an ongoing plot, characters grow and change as they progesss
Cartoons are for children. BULLCRAP. You aint gonna let a child watch SPAWN or Heavy Metal right?
But it would be folly to consider Spawn, Avatar or Justice league "anime" since you deny them the recognition of their country of origin.
* Cartoons have not action packed and they have no character deaths.
* Cartoons are not continuous and has no meaning.
* Cartoons have poorly drawin characters.
Evidence of "didnt do research" or "poorly exposed"
Anime like Azumanga Daioh, Love Hina and many other slice of life genre have no character deaths. Would you consider those mere "cartoons"?
Then what do you call anime like "Shin Chan" that is clearly episodic and not continuous??
Anime like Naruto and pokemon suffer from as much(in fact MORE) instances of off-model artwork than any western animation does. Since that is poorly drawn, doesnt Naruto fall under the category of Cartoon?
IMO, there should just be "cartoons" and "anime".
The category should be just
"ANIMATION"
then sub-classified according to country and then sub-classified once more according to target audience.
So you have "Children's american animation"(which is what ppl call cartoons), "children's anime"(which is what i call.....well......anime for kids like POKEMON)
At the same time you have "teen" or "adult" anime and "teen" or "adult" American animation.
lumping all american animation under "cartoon" is a stereotype only the ignorant use and an unfair stereotype at that.
At the same time, to call all anime "great" is silly. There are great anime, and there are just as much anime that sucks.
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Yea,Hollywood makes more money than cartoons surely maybe thats why real action seems to be the way.After all in entertainment industry there are more people trying to make a lot of money.The new 3D movies might be a blow to cartoons maybe children in near future will be watching live 3D & forget cartoons. Comic chars in 3D soon could be it.
well, japan has recently tried 3D anime. THey showed it at a recent con but the results were less than impressive.
Basically only the CGI backgrounds and title screens were 3D making the animation clash with the tradtionally animated 2D characters even more.
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Yup totally agreed japanese animation definitely have plots which can be compared to soaps or movies.While cartoons are quite simple which can't be of any interest to adults.Even movies like wall-e,madagascar,Up don't seem to have enough in them to attract adults.When you have so many good soaps & movies around you definitely seem to forget cartoons as you grow up.
People don't like cartoons but american comic chars turned into movies have succeeded greatly whether it be batman,ironman,superman people don't watch cartoons but definitely go for movies.
CArtoons featuring american comic characters have been doing well too.
Remember Batman: THe Animated series? Those awards arent for nothing. Most of the DC animated series have been super right up to Justice League unlimited.
I think another reason why you dont see much american animation geared toward the older crowd is the "Do it in live action first" mentality.
If you got a script that targets anyone above "teens", any producer would push it into a live action production instead of an animated production.
In japan, they have had to contend for high filming costs(compared to cheaper animation costs) for the longest time and as such scripts that american producers would hve pushed into a live action production end up as anime in japan.
Its a "social habit" thing.
American's habit is to push whatever they can into live action films or tv series even though its more expensive cos
a) it has a broader appeal
they have the spending power. The "Spend big for big returns" saying applies here.
Japan's habit has been all about cost saving and as such most scripts would most likely end up as animation before it sees a live action production. Live action productions are only "reserved" for the more verteran big name directors.
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:happy:japanese all the way i live in america and i have to say anime in japan is much better the art and everything. I have always like japanese anime since i was a kid because there seems to be more feeling to it and it seems like it took a lot more time and feeling to make.
more time?? not exactly.
Most series like Naruto are churned out on a weekly basis like any ol episode of simpsons.
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too many to count
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the only problem is variety.
Aside from a couple of shows that appeal to adults, most of american animation appeals to kids.
Japanese animation has a lot more variety.
But in terms of writing, i've seen many american animated shows that beat the crap out of japanese anime if the writers are given the opportunity to go all out and not limit themselves to the kid audience.
I'm sure if given the opportunity to expand, the american writers can come up with more shows to rival anime. But i think its mostly due to executive meddling here since the execs themselves only want animation for kids.
Wolverine and the X-men, much of DCAU, the recent direc-to-video marvel and DC animated movies, Last Airbender, etc.
Heck, "The Iron Giant" is wayyy better than any of Miyazaki's Ghibli movies but nobody gives it due credit.
In terms of writing, it is only limited by the executives in charge and the unwillingness to take the risk of moving out of the children audience age range.
In terms of animation, again, it is mixed.
WEstern animation falls into either EXTREMELY good(Titan A.E for example) or extremely bad(Mortal Kombat Defenders of the Realm). Anime manages to maintain mediocrity with a couple exceptional ones(Ghost in the Shell) and many other dismal ones(Pokemon, Naruto).
I'm from an asian country but i'll say this.
I am not partial to western or japanese anime.
I LIKE GOOD ANIMATED SHOWS.
Dont care where it is made, as long as its good, i'll watch it.
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i would get singles if given the chance.
I heard they take out a lot of the extras in the boxsets
To bad i dont live in USA so importing boxsets is the only option
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imo they should quit while they're ahead
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I'll answer it using Avatar: the Last Airbender
They said that Aang was not allowed to kill Ozai. so thats why Aang was kicking himself over and over again.
Does that answer ur question?
erm........But avatar was a Nick production.
Have they shown anime in the past?
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There's this new on called Summer Wars.
THe animation is meh, but the story is really good
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how is nick and their censorship of anime??
Do they censor as much as toonami??
What anime merchandise do you legally own?
in My Two Cents
Posted
I own a couple of manga and anime DVDs(the latter is very hard to get since i have to import them from overseas). Maybe i'll upload pics soon. lol
MANGA
Tsubasa RC 1-24
Magister Negi Magi 1-21
SuperPsychic Nanaki 1-3
Rahxephon 1-3
Gundam Seed AStray 1-3
Gundam seed Astray X 1-2
Gundam Seed AStray R 1-4
Gundam Ecole Do Ciel 1-4
Rose Hip Zero 1-5
Gundam Wing G Unit 1-3
ANIME DVDs (region 1)
Zeta Gundam limited edition boxset(though its not on my shelf since its HUGE)
Gundam Wing anime legends 1 and 2
Gundam Wing endless waltz (anime classics edition)
Mobile Suit Gundam Char's Counterattack
Mobile suit gundam F91
Guyver the Biobooster Armor 2005 boxset
Cowboy bebop sessions 1-6
Trigun remix 1-6
Genesis of Aquarion complete series
PumpKin Scissors complete box set
Full Metal Panic
Full Metal Panic Fumoffu
Patlabor 2
Argento Soma
Betterman
Saiyuki complete series
Karas
Samurai Champloo
Samurai Gun
Samurai 7 Viridian edition
Ghost in the Shell
Ghost in the Shell innocence
GITS Stand Alone complex (anime legends edition)
GITS Stand Alone complex 2nd Gig (anime legends edition)
GITS Stand Alone complex: Solid state society
Transformers Armada boxsets 1 and 2
Transformers Energon complete collection
Transformers Cybertron complete collection
Anime DVDs region 3
Otogi Zoshi complete boxset
Bleach: Memories of nobody
Interstella 5555
Anime DVDs region 4
Wolfs Rain complete series
Boogiepop Phantom
Anime BLu-ray
Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles
Ghost in the Shell 2.0
Gundam UC: Day of the unicorn
Evangelion 1.11