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Natalie

Transgender Rights

11 posts in this topic

Keep this civil, people.

I made this since I've seen it creep up in two topics.

So what do you think trans rights should be? This is an incredibly decisive topic, mostly because there's only a few medical studies on it (and are on both sides of the issue)and the study groups found in them are incredibly small to form a solid argument on it. That being said, I think a lot of people's opinions are founded on misconceptions or what have you..

I'm biased since I'm part of the LGBT community (bi) and I have 2 close transgendered friends (male to female). But I'm of the thought that transgender is a biological occurrence, and should be treated as such (just like gays). One actual argument that I find solid is that people who identify themselves as trans have an incredibly high attempted suicide rate and the result of hormone therapy greatly reduced that rate. Be it from social stigma or what, but if people feel so strongly or question their gender so strongly, why would they still identify themselves as trans when it very clearly hurts them? People aren't trans because they want to be, people are because they simply are. I'm sure many of them wish they weren't.

Most places recognize this as an actual biological issue by labeling it as 'gender dysphoria' or 'gender disorder' and legal rights are applied via name changes, change of sex on a license/birth certificate, and grants on medication or in some cases surgery. While people might oppose the idea of public health care covering the hormone therapy (HRT) and the actual sex change, I don't. I find it similar to the government covering anti-depressants to someone with depression. The problem isn't just going to go away with a pep-talk, it requires medical attention.

Many places are going through the issues of public bathrooms and trans people. Which I find ridiculous, the argument that people might abuse it to 'get their rocks off' is completely ridiculous. Pissing and shitting are a natural act for all genders, who the fuck wants to get their rocks off in a bathroom or change room? As someone who used unisex bathrooms AND family bathrooms, I don't care, no one should, it's not a big deal. Also once the surgery/hormone therapy runs it course, many transmen and transwomen pass as the gender they identify as. Who wants these transwomen in a men's washroom? (These are from a before and after)

That ALL being said, why should you care? It's not effecting you that much, so who cares? In the event that you think that government health is going towards this, who cares? There's multiple things that the government spends on that ISN'T going to effect you, so, why aren't you complaining about that? The goal of public health care is to help those in need, and trans people fit under that category. You still help pay the cost of someone getting their face wrecked in a fight, or by helping the recovery of a drunk driver in the event of an accident. Trans people getting their surgery either covered or partly covered is so minuscule in comparison.

Side note: Gender and sexuality are different. It is very possible to be a gay trangender, meaning you are interested in the same gender you identify.

That being said, I think trans people culture against 'cis scum' is kinda silly. Quick looks on tumblr, you can find this pretty quickly. Preferred pronouns are incredibly hard to get used to if you're used to calling someone a him. And using 'they' as gender neutral is so fucking awkward and weird. I have no solution for a gender neutral pronoun. BUT I think this might be just a tumblr thing, the two people I know are pretty accepting of my him/her mishaps.

And that's about it, uh, my opinion's pretty set in stone and on one extreme, I'm interested on mostly helping inform some people but kinda interesting on hearing other people's take on it, as long as it isn't offensive.

Edited by Natalie

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I did like to think where I was born (Australia) is welcoming and open minded to races, gender, religion, beliefs, gays, transgenders, etc. At least I think so in my generation and later generations (I hope), as we were brought up not to judge or criticise people's choices in their life. That's one thing I really like about Australia, your neighbor be a doctor, university professor, billionaire, etc and while you could be a toilet cleaner, but in the end you are both equal in status and treated the same. I'm from an asian background, so from my perspective I find the two different culture contrasts each other greatly. For example, I was brought up to supposedly believe that social status can be attained from education and to discriminate anyone who does not supposedly have a good education (university). Each time I go on holiday overseas to visit my parents family, the discrimination is real, everyone discriminates over there, even if they are in a lower social status (poor) they still discriminate, as this was the way how they were brought up and how society got their beliefs/morales shaped. Education isn't the only subject most Asian culture discriminates against, but that is just one example, they actually discriminate almost everything i.e. gays, trans, wealth, race, disabilities, job, ethics, morale, beliefs, religion, how you speak, how you stand, how you eat, etc. (I basically give those cunts the "FUCK YOU, I DON'T CARE" attitude, even if they think of me highly I treat everyone the same.)


 


Anyways the point was, it all depends on how you were brought up and what you actually believe in. Even if people say they are open minded and unbiased, I always call them a bullshitter since in my opinion every human is biased to a certain extent (we are also biased by our human instinct, read up about cognitive biases if you're curious). Since if you're really opened minded and neutral in everything, means you don't have any opinion and don't give a shit about anything. You have to either take one side or the other even if it's to a certain extent.


 


I personally don't give two shits about what other people do in their life, as long as it's morally right (i.e. no murdering, hurting living creatures, unethical things like scamming, etc) and do not affect other people in a negative/harmful way.


 


tl;dr


I don't see why transgender can't have those rights that both genders enjoy. Personally I don't care as it doesn't affect me in anyway...


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Even if people say they are open minded and unbiased, I always call them a bullshitter since in my opinion every human is biased to a certain extent (we are also biased by our human instinct, read up about cognitive biases if you're curious). Since if you're really opened minded and neutral in everything, means you don't have any opinion and don't give a shit about anything. You have to either take one side or the other even if it's to a certain extent.

 

I personally don't give two shits about what other people do in their life, as long as it's morally right (i.e. no murdering, hurting living creatures, unethical things like scamming, etc) and do not affect other people in a negative/harmful way.

 

tl;dr

I don't see why transgender can't have those rights that both genders enjoy. Personally I don't care as it doesn't affect me in anyway...

Sums up my opinion on most of these social issues.

What I dislike about this thread is the OP. If you really want nice replies, stick to Tumblr/loony Twitter circles. I have no time for people who don't want to listen to both sides of an argument, no matter how 'wrong' their argument may be.

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I am not going to argue, or even respond back to comments towards me, I will just leave my opinion. What consenting adults do behind closed doors is their business and government should leave them be.


 


This issue can, and will, lead to all kinds of abuses if common sense and rational decision making isn't taken into consideration. Letting a boy use the girls room because he feels like a girl is abuse in the extreme. Is there any guy here that wouldn't of said, if given the opportunity in grade school, that he 'felt like a girl' so he could go shower with the girls after gym class...


 


Common sense is building more single bathrooms so only one person can use it at a time, problem solved for those wanting privacy or having identity issues. As a guy I hated having to share a shower area with 30 other guys at the same time, so a private shower is beneficial to all.


 


With that being said if a boy forced his way into a bathroom/shower filled with girls, and one of them was my daughter, niece, sister, etc. that boy would have a very short life expectancy. Regardless of if he 'felt like a girl' or not.


 


I have known several homosexuals and been good natured towards them, even dated a girl that was bi during my wild days. I've been hit on by homosexuals numerous times (rejected each and everyone by just walking away). There was only one time I hated a homosexual, well hate is a strong word, I disliked a lot and openly voiced my opinion. That person was a guy who had an operation and tried telling everybody he was female. He openly went after heterosexual men. I do not believe in lying about ones gender, the ramifications can be destructive.


 


That is all I have to say.


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Even if people say they are open minded and unbiased, I always call them a bullshitter since in my opinion every human is biased to a certain extent (we are also biased by our human instinct, read up about cognitive biases if you're curious). Since if you're really opened minded and neutral in everything, means you don't have any opinion and don't give a shit about anything. You have to either take one side or the other even if it's to a certain extent.

 

I personally don't give two shits about what other people do in their life, as long as it's morally right (i.e. no murdering, hurting living creatures, unethical things like scamming, etc) and do not affect other people in a negative/harmful way.

 

tl;dr

I don't see why transgender can't have those rights that both genders enjoy. Personally I don't care as it doesn't affect me in anyway...

Sums up my opinion on most of these social issues.

What I dislike about this thread is the OP. If you really want nice replies, stick to Tumblr/loony Twitter circles. I have no time for people who don't want to listen to both sides of an argument, no matter how 'wrong' their argument may be.

Hey man, I like reading the replies even if I find them 'wrong', while I may not agree and while I admit my post was fully loaded, as long as people are civil, I don't mind. Plus I highly doubt anyone of the opposite opinion will actually reply to my post or even read it. Which is fair, I guess.

Your first line of defense seems to be to stick to my tumblr/twitter circles, which is pretty goofy to me, good way to dodge a discussion I'd say. I don't really give a shit about any creed someone may or may not follow as long as it does not interfere with my life in a negative way, just like you two, but I'd rather follow what I think is a logical thing and the amount of hate is kinda.. ick.

For the record, I love these debate topics and actually talking to and dissecting information and posts. I learn from this shit, even if I disagree. Simply saying 'stick to your tumblr circles I don't give a fuck' is a non-post, I'd rather read an opinion like Blitzepidemic's, Zero's or even Phazon's rather than your trite.

"What I didn't want" is what Phazon told me in the gay rights thread. Calling trans or gay/bi out as abhorrent, disgusting or simply being offensive with the intent to hurt is fucking stupid, having a post like that is not relevant to any sort of discussion. Even then explaining your position might be better but I'd rather avoid flaming or directly offensive responses. I'm okay with the post of "I don't think trangerism exists", or even "I think trans people are gross"; I'm not okay with "Trans people are fucking gross and they should all burn". Should go without saying, but I think the disclaimer on my part is fair considering the hilarious reply I got from Phazon in the gay rights topic.

 

I am not going to argue, or even respond back to comments towards me, I will just leave my opinion. What consenting adults do behind closed doors is their business and government should leave them be.

Missed opportunity I think, you have a argument that's fair from your viewpoint. I think it's a subject of discussion as far as bathrooms go and it's probably a more societal thing than anything. If you read my post as talking instead of arguing, you'd see I'm pretty calm for the most part. I'm not sure how my tone comes across as but I imagine it as calm, not necessarily argumentative.

 

This issue can, and will, lead to all kinds of abuses if common sense and rational decision making isn't taken into consideration. Letting a boy use the girls room because he feels like a girl is abuse in the extreme. Is there any guy here that wouldn't of said, if given the opportunity in grade school, that he 'felt like a girl' so he could go shower with the girls after gym class...

I honestly don't think just letting someone who first states 'I feel like a chick' could then straight up just use a woman's change room right then and there. You'd have to go to psychologist and a doctor to actually classify as trans, and at that point you still may not be classified for several sessions before they tell you "okay, I guess your trans, here's your trans license I guess". I don't think a guy just wanting a peek in a woman's change room would go through all that trouble, along with the stigma that he/she's trans.

 

Common sense is building more single bathrooms so only one person can use it at a time, problem solved for those wanting privacy or having identity issues. As a guy I hated having to share a shower area with 30 other guys at the same time, so a private shower is beneficial to all.

I actually quite like this idea and haven't thought of it. I never had a gym shower room back when I was in school, actual rooms would alleviate issues pertaining to this. Having been camping and using showers at most campsites that provide it, they have sectioned off showers and a little area to change clothes within them. That being said it might be an issue of money at that point.

 

With that being said if a boy forced his way into a bathroom/shower filled with girls, and one of them was my daughter, niece, sister, etc. that boy would have a very short life expectancy. Regardless of if he 'felt like a girl' or not.

The way you word it, I'd be worried about my kids too. I honestly haven't heard many cases of people weaseling their way into the washroom to get at them. I think the actual times an event like this occurred might be rare. Regardless I think if someone wants to peek at girls that way, they have a lot of work ahead of them, regardless if they 'feel like a girl'.

Although, wouldn't the subject of sexuality and changerooms be a point of contention? Why is it okay that a gay guy can change in the same change room as males? I'm sure it might be enticing to try and get at another person who's attractive nude, but most people can resist that urge. And fuck I don't even like looking at people when I'm changing in the change room, that shit's awkward as fuck. Just as awkward at seeing dad dick in a family bathroom, I didn't want to grab at his dick, I wanted to avoid eye contact to any part of him.. Although everyone would fucking peek once, I'm sure, and the avert their eyes.

 

I have known several homosexuals and been good natured towards them, even dated a girl that was bi during my wild days. I've been hit on by homosexuals numerous times (rejected each and everyone by just walking away). There was only one time I hated a homosexual, well hate is a strong word, I disliked a lot and openly voiced my opinion. That person was a guy who had an operation and tried telling everybody he was female. He openly went after heterosexual men. I do not believe in lying about ones gender, the ramifications can be destructive.

Trust me that, that may be just an isolated incident. I've known of a couple trans people around here and none I've met are obnoxious. While I doubt that's the case with everyone, I don't think it's too too common. I know of far more level headed homosexuals/bisexual people than I do of obnoxious ones (there's a lot) and I really don't like associating too much with the pride crowd (it's a fucking be-naked-in-public parade, c'mon, and stop flaunting). The ramifications of someone lying about their genders/sexuality are, I imagine, pretty destructive; Even if they know it or not.

I doubt there's a large subset who lie about it to the point of actually transitioning to get at chicks/dudes. To transition takes years and even then you may or may not pass off as the opposite gender. If you're at that point of transition and you lied about being trans, you're fucked and I'm sure you would of done other fucked up shit if you didn't transition.

As far as sexuality goes, I feel bad for trans people looking for love, I'd imagine it's really fucking hard when you don't pass off as the opposite gender. But it's really not okay for them to try and deceive another party to get laid/love. As convincing a transwoman's vagina may be, not releasing that info when it's wanted or necessary is a big 'NO' to me. Even as a bi woman, I'd want to know you were trans if I tried ANYTHING out and I'm unsure I even want that. There's no convincing someone to change their preference. I don't find black people sexually attractive, doesn't mean I'm racist or what, just means I have a preference. If I was in your situation, I'd be pretty uncomfortable too.

Edited by Natalie

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Anyways the point was, it all depends on how you were brought up and what you actually believe in. Even if people say they are open minded and unbiased, I always call them a bullshitter since in my opinion every human is biased to a certain extent (we are also biased by our human instinct, read up about cognitive biases if you're curious). Since if you're really opened minded and neutral in everything, means you don't have any opinion and don't give a shit about anything. You have to either take one side or the other even if it's to a certain extent.

 

I personally don't give two shits about what other people do in their life, as long as it's morally right (i.e. no murdering, hurting living creatures, unethical things like scamming, etc) and do not affect other people in a negative/harmful way.

 

tl;dr

I don't see why transgender can't have those rights that both genders enjoy. Personally I don't care as it doesn't affect me in anyway...

Lovely post and I agree. Something like this is hard to be completely objective on it, even with facts (which there is like.. none). I imagine a lot of people share your opinion, and my intent in this topic was to separate it from the gay rights topic and the gun one (why the fuck did he bring it up there?).

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Anyways the point was, it all depends on how you were brought up and what you actually believe in. Even if people say they are open minded and unbiased, I always call them a bullshitter since in my opinion every human is biased to a certain extent (we are also biased by our human instinct, read up about cognitive biases if you're curious). Since if you're really opened minded and neutral in everything, means you don't have any opinion and don't give a shit about anything. You have to either take one side or the other even if it's to a certain extent.

 

I personally don't give two shits about what other people do in their life, as long as it's morally right (i.e. no murdering, hurting living creatures, unethical things like scamming, etc) and do not affect other people in a negative/harmful way.

 

tl;dr

I don't see why transgender can't have those rights that both genders enjoy. Personally I don't care as it doesn't affect me in anyway...

Lovely post and I agree. Something like this is hard to be completely objective on it, even with facts (which there is like.. none). I imagine a lot of people share your opinion, and my intent in this topic was to separate it from the gay rights topic and the gun one (why the fuck did he bring it up there?).

 

Well the whole point was to explain my thought process, beliefs and morals with a bit of background and some examples. I can't just say "I don't give a shit, since it doesn't affect me" without explaining some of my thought process. So essentially a lot of those stupid social issues (like gays, trans, etc) we face today especially in the Western world does not really affect me or other people, thus I don't care (some religions, countries murders gays/trans/etc, that's a big no no for me and therefore I do have an opinion on that). I do have certain opinions about some certain social issues, but I did like to be as open minded as possible and preferably stay as neutral as I can to not be influenced by my biases.

 

IF YOU HAVE NOTHING NICE TO SAY, DON'T SAY IT. JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T AGREE DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN SAY MEAN THINGS ABOUT TRANS PEOPLE.

 

Also don't hate what @JohnFlower said, he does have a valid point when considering the fact your first line on this thread is essentially that. i.e. wanting only nice replies...

Edited by ZeroPenguins

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IF YOU HAVE NOTHING NICE TO SAY, DON'T SAY IT. JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T AGREE DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN SAY MEAN THINGS ABOUT TRANS PEOPLE.

 

Also don't hate what @JohnFlower said, he does have a valid point when considering the fact your first line on this thread is essentially that. i.e. wanting only nice replies...

My intent was much different as to what he's referring to, I guess I didn't make that evident, regardless, I'll take it down. If I didn't make it clear, I wrote that to avoid what was said to me in the Gay Rights topic, but I guess I made the disclaimer too much about niceties I guess. I'm terrible at tone and intent w/e.

Reason why I'm somewhat hostile towards him is that he mentioned the same thing about tumblr in the gay rights topic, recommended me a video (which I watched, and didn't really support a thing), and called it a day. Which I guess is okay but I really dislike it, might as well not post at all. Just because I fall on the side of support doesn't mean I associate with that culture. Just like reddit and popular online sites, I dislike them because they're just a gross circle jerk of positivity and gross ignorance.

Edited by Natalie

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transgenders dont exist

 

there is only male and females

 

Cut off your penis and your balls / wear girls cloths but your still a guy it chances nothing.  Its just brain damage.  If you take hormones to change your physical appearance but again it changes nothing....  Cant change your dna.

 

These people say they are making a gender change but they just need a better therapist. 

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4 hours ago, rand said:

transgenders dont exist

 

there is only male and females

 

Cut off your penis and your balls / wear girls cloths but your still a guy it chances nothing.  Its just brain damage.  If you take hormones to change your physical appearance but again it changes nothing....  Cant change your dna.

 

These people say they are making a gender change but they just need a better therapist. 

 

I dont really comment on topics like this but I read your comment and laughed cus, well: First of all transgenders do exist, thats why they created the term, Transgender.

"Transgender people are people who have a gender identity, or gender expression, that differs from their assigned sex."

So... its not like Santa Clause, Transgenders do exist.

 

Your comment was so hatefull and ignorant that it usually fits right in at different forums. If someone is transgender i dont really care, but stupidity and ignorance from people who should know better, that is something to look down on/ laugh at.

 

And well, "brain damage" is in a sence right, cus they were born this way and cant really change it. All brains a wired differently, which is why we all are unique, and transgendered brains are "wired" a way that they do not identify with the sex that they were born into.

 

As for me, I think they should have equal right, cus i do not find any reason they should not have 'em. Equality is a good thing. But as it does not really affect me, i dont care too much and im not invested in fighting for their rights, i just think everyone should be entitled to equal rights.

 

 

Edited by Fishmonster

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https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/transgender-people-do-exist-steven-weinberg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2016/en#/F64.9

http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2016/en#/F64.8

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

 

Transgender people are people who have a gender identity, or gender expression, that differs from their assigned sex.

 

Long story short they are butthurt about the way they were popped out of the mold and want to add or remove parts to there body and think it will actually make them the opposite sex. Its just higher order cross dressing with less legal protection and more stigma because your doing something that shows beyond reasonable doubt you have gender dysphoria disorder.

 

Think of it like this:

aka trans male to female

you (99% males who use this forum, 1% google spiders)

 

if you have sex with the trans its gay sex but because the she is a he. We all started out female, then depending on what hormones the mother gave the child it will determine gender. But female is the default for everyone, as males we are the modification to the norm. It makes perfect sense some one to be born with a male body but have a largely female brain but no matter how they change and what cloths they wear its not possible to change your gender. We know now more about the stars in the sky then the brain or the ocean. So its not “hate speech” but very accurately pointing out brain damaged millennial's. I do not advocate physical violence to these people in any way. Threw self ownership we have the ability to make absolute changes to our body as we see fit. They in no way harm me or my quality of life and I have no intention of harming them or keeping them from living how they want. However the quality of life will go down if they make these needless physical changes. Not to mention they make themselves a minority with limited legal protection and open to a life time of discrimination. At the end of the day a so called “trans” will still use the male bath room even if they dress as female.

 

What I would do in my case if I saw one of these people is ask for there cell phone then:

 

Me: “ok google – mental healthcare clinics in my area”

 

me: errr – whats your insurance

 

them: oh thats xxxxxxx

 

me: k

 

me: “ok google – therapist who takes xxxxx insurance”

 

me: do you know what a ssri is bro? I got a doctor who just gives it out. I can get you on sertraline with in the hour after one phone call.

 

them: errrr what is that

 

me: let me take your hand and lead you to the pharmacy

 

 

“All brains a wired differently, which is why we all are unique, and transgendered brains are "wired" a way that they do not identify with the sex that they were born into.”

in a nut shell yes that is why they need a therapist and acceptance of what they are because makeup and dresses changes nothing. Just like poker its the hand you got and make the best of it and not play with jokers.

 

So when people say they want to become “trans” I interject a “csb” or cool story bro the due diligence is done and I know they are bat shit crazy. (I could use the “theres your sign” joke but its kinda dead)

 

 

“If someone is transgender i dont really care, but stupidity and ignorance from people who should know better, that is something to look down on/ laugh at. ”

No one is laughing or looking down but it gives an opportunity for them to seek mental health services and there family should help them seek treatment.

 

I know what they are and loath this new do not offend culture. If its not for me then no one will give them the light in the darkness by a simple “ah err bro you know this is brain damage – I mean google this shit like asap gender dysphoria disorder “ , “also bro you might be doing this to go into the girls bathroom but your not fooling anyone – your still peeing in the male bathroom”

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